Good discussion, with good points from several participants.
And thanks for summing it up, Xeriuth!
Here are my own opinions on the BBV.
Things that need to be addressed:
1. Would changes to the BBV make it more desirable?
Definitely - but let's not go overboard. Whoever has the BBV is already "The strongest Player". Making it considerably better than all other equipment would be an advantage that he/she doesn't really need, and also making it harder for the BBV to change owner.
2. Should it be PK only?
I think it should, since it is a PvP object.
One possible idea could be to autoset both wearer and challenger as PK. As long as the challenge is valid or you are the BBV champion, you stay PK. After that you can pay to have the flag removed, if you wish.
3. What wear slots should the new items be? Stay Arm for melee? Should casters get a focus?
Making a separate item for Casters is a good idea, we can use my grizzled fur script for it.
Stay Arm for melee.
If there is a combination of stats that could make it equally good for a casters, I think it would be better to keep the same wear_loc for both.
Wouldn't "the best focus in the game" be worth a lot more than "the best arm item in the game"?
But if a focus can be balanced against an arm item, by all means let them get a focus.
But call it The Blue Bolt of Victory
, so both items get the same abbreviation. What should the stats be?
Don't go overboard on this (See point 1)
Slightly better than the best existing item for the same slot should be enough. The Prestige of having the BBV should do the rest.
4. Should the items increase stats upon kill milestones?
I don't think this is a good idea. We already have two levelling item - the Orcrist and the Golems, - and the scripts for those are very complex, and it would be hard to put in enough checks to stop all potential abuse. (Also, see point 1 about not going overboard and point 7 about abuse).The BBV is a unique item, that only one player gets. Let's keep that in mind.
5. Should the BBV have a timer applied to it, that resets upon relog?
It definitely should, to avoid the situation when a bearer leaves for good, or stays away for a long time for IC reasons.
The Timer should be pretty long though, I think 3 days, allowing someone to go away for the weekend, without losing the BBV.
On the other hand, it should only reset on relog if the bearer stays logged in for at least half an hour. (To give other players a decent chance to challenge, and avoid a pattern of login/out once a day, just to keep the item.If timer expires offline, the BBV should load in the BBV load room. If so, what should the timer be?
or Should the BBV poof upon logout/idle and reset in BBV load room
I think it's better if the BBV just resets on the bearer on log-in. Why complicate things unnecessarily?
6. Should auto-challenges be allowed?
I think so, to avoid a person hiding out in their Clanhall to avoid challenges.If so,
Should it change owners upon death?
Only if death occurs on a battle over the BBV, not if the bearer happens to die from a mob or other player during the challenge.Should challenges have to be done in person? Or can they be done from a BBV Champions Altar (BBV load room)?How long should the duration of the challenge last before expiring? And if denied, or the challenge expires, should it change owners at that time?
I think challenges should always trigger a message on a global channel that cannot be toggled off, so that everyone logged on can see them, not just the BBV-bearer and the ones in the same room. The message could be the one in the challenge social, only global. This part might need some coding, perhaps a dedicated global channel.
There should be a reasonably long timer, to give the bearer a chance to see it and respond. Perhaps 5-10 minutes?
Since a player might miss the challenge due to fight spam, it should then be auto-repeated over the global channel every 30 seconds until it's accepted, refused, or the timer runs out.
There should again be a reasonably long duration time after the challenge is accepted, to give the bearer time to finish what they are doing and equip properly, another 5-10 minutes maybe.
If there is no response, or the challenge is refused the band should autochange to the challenger.
It should however perhaps not be allowed to challenge a player who has the afk flag set.How often can one challenge?
Not too often, that would be extremely irritating for the bearer.
There should be at least one days delay between challenges, perhaps more.Should BBV get it's own BBV Arena?
I don't really see the reason for that.
But if someone else but me is willing to put in the work of doing one, by all means let them.
On a side note, I think Kvetch made some arenas for Horus that were never put in action for some reason. Perhaps we can use those.
7. For open world PK... Should it change owners upon death?
It should - but no autoforce to wear.Can a BBV holder be double-teamed? If so, how would you decide the next wearer? Or should it be a legit 1v1 fight?
Definitely no double-teaming allowed in a challenged BBV fight, that would be extremely unfair.
Even the attempt to do so, should be punished, if possible. Perhaps by autokilling whoever tries to jump in.
This might be one reason to have a separate Arena, if it cannot be controlled in any other way.
If it is normal PK, and not a challenged fight
, a BBV-holder should have to take their chances like any other PK, i.e. they can be ambushed, double-teamed etc, but they keep the BBV if killed.Should the BBV be lootable?
Definitely not. Nobody should be able to get the BBV without a proper challenge. Should either of the players corpse(s) be lootable when the BBV is involved?
If so, should there be limitations on the amount of items take-able, or make the exp on their bbv exp reset as punishment. (assuming the exp doesn't reset by default on bbv loss)
I think it would be better to keep the BBV fights strictly to the BBV. So in a challenge fight the BBV changes hands automately, and no other looting is allowed.Should repeat kills be allowed or have diminishing returns be scripted in. So upon a rekill of your friend the next reward is less. Also, how far back should it go. Example: a clan of 3 PK'rs could hook each other up and kill the other two members over and over and back forth to get full return without having killed the same repeatedly.
See, this is the main reason why I don't think the BBV should evolve at all. Experience tells us that if a feature can be abused, it will be, sooner or later. The above are two example of how it could be abused. I'm sure our inventive players can think of more.
See also point 1 and 4 above.
8. Should the BBV be forced to wear upon changing of owners? And forced to wear always?
If not, suggestions for how someone can always know who has the BBV, if it changes hands often, you might not as easily know the current owner of it.
Perhaps have the champion altar display or prompt who the current owner is?
Definitely no force wear.
There might be several reasons why a player would choose something else for the wear slot.
I think the WHO list should display who the current BBV holder is. Both for prestige and info reasons, this would be a good thing.
9. After all these changes would you participate more actively in obtaining the BBV?
I'll take the 5th amendment on this.
Also, keep in mind through this discussion, due to the lack of active coders much of this would need to be scripted. Not everything can be accomplished via scripts, that's why work-arounds would need to be provided and included behind the thought-process.
Example: We could have the current PK Champion be the BBV holder, but that would need to be coded.
I think it would be best to get as much as possible coded.
At least the challenge, and how it affects the BBV-holder and the BBV itself would need to be coded, especially if we use a separate global channel for it.
It would also be nice to see the present BBV holder on the WHO list, this needs coding too.
Hopefully none of this would be overly hard or time consuming for a coder to do, you just need to drag them out of their cozy nest..