lumberjacking

[Zsijn]

certain trees load frequently like oaks and pines....you can get the required amount in no time.....others like aspen, cypress, alder load rarer and take awhile to gather the required amount

can we please update the trade point rewards to scale more based on the type of wood turned in?  its bad enough they add 1 log to the requirement after completing jobs...i could probably get 27 oaks before i get 10 aspens or dogwoods

[Zsijn]

so...anything on this?

[Molly]

If we had a craft system, where the naturall assets in the game would be used in a logical way as base for the crafting, then the different types of trees could have different values, i.e. trees that load more seldom would be worth more than the more frequent ones. This would make skills like lumberjacking, mining and collecting much more interesting and would also provide an interest to players who want to do other things than bashing mobs.

We already have the base for an interesting crafting system in the game. Different types of  wood, metals and gems for weapons can be found in the zones, as well as different kinds of fibres (flax, hemp, silk, wool),  different kinds of animal hides, skin and fur, different kinds of herbs, roots, fruits and flowers etc. The experienced explorers would know where to find and extract all those things. There is even a Crafter's Alley northwest of Olde Yorke, with all the necessary tools for the various crafts.

This was all designed with the a working craft system as the ultimate goal. If everything that already exists in the game, could be used in an intelligent way as the base for the system, it could add a lot of new aspects to the game and also create a real player run economy. But regrettably none of the coders have ever been interested in creating one.

Since the coders never seemed interested, I have been working  in the past on a script based craft system. But it is a rather big and complicated task for one person, especially since I have many other things in the game that need my attention, (as well as my present RL situation). So it never got completed, but the bases for it still exists. We do have many skilled scriptors in the staff, and perhaps some of them could help finish the task.

However, it does make sense that a system as complex as this should be based on code, not scripts,

Once said some time ago that he was working on a coded craft system. What happened to those plans?

[Zsijn]

so what your telling me is my damn aspen logs are going to be worth the same as my oak logs.....great so in the time i can gather 147 oak logs i get 10 aspen....it may not be aspen it may be something else i just recall aspen at the moment.....doesnt seem like it would be that hard of a change to scale it up a bit....plus considering how easy it is to make tps in other areas lumberjacking which can be time consuming should get a bit of a bump....

[Molly]

No, that is not what I am telling you.

I am all for that the more rare logs should fetch a better price in TPs at the lumber mill than the very common ones.
But to achieve that, I need a coder to set up a list of the percentage appearance of different kinds of trees in the game, because there are way too many of them for me to count them manually. Especially if someone is out lumberjacking at the same time.

The command 'where tree' currently gives me 806 hits, all blended together. I am not about to sort that list out, and update it every time a builder adds a bunch of new trees to a zone.

What I am saying is that some work is more fitted for coders, other for builders, and some needs a combination of both.
As it is, we builders have done our part, by providing all the raw materials necessary to create an awesome crafting system, or at least a working player economy.

Now we are hoping for the coders to do their part, but regrettably they only seem interested in combat...

[Once]

I tried to look up the data for you, but the way trees is programmed is too convuluted to really read. So I'm going to code my own tree system tomorrow. I'll also put in a little engine for elemental variables which should help us with some of the spell rebalancing, in addition to making lumberjacking also a player trading activity.

Long term, the idea is that crafting, not pikes, should be the main source of badass caster multis.

[Molly]

Seriously? You are going to code your own tree system?

We already have a tree system. There are 50 different kinds of trees in it, (vnum 52600-52699), which all produce a different kind of log when you grab an axe and fell them.

These trees are reset in almost every zone in the game, at present there are around 800 of them in the game.

We have a script for the lumbermills to accept logs from the various trees - and you are planning to code your own system, making them all worthless?

It makes me wonder why I ever bother to do anything.

[Zsijn]

why not just update the scripts on accepting the logs in the mill to key and reward off of vnums?  load me up on the BP and ill write out the scripts and submit for your review...

[Molly]

why not just update the scripts on accepting the logs in the mill to key and reward off of vnums? 

Because it's not just a question of making 50 if-checks in the scripts to pay for each log individually. The problem  is to calculate the price for each log, based on how many percents of the total number of 1000 trees are for instance oaks and how many are willows. For this you don't need just the vnums of the logs and trees, you need access to almost every zone in the game, since the same 50 tree objects are reset everywhere with a maxload of 999 each. And those zones are not even in the buildport.

That's where I thought a coder could might come in handy, since counting them manually is of course doable, but exceedingly boring.

[Once]

Not to worry, it'll use the same vnums, just make the way tree loading is calculated a lot more sane. What we have right now are complex formulas that probably made sense when they were being coded but that are a bit of a mess to wade through. You won't need to do any more work on your end, it'll be backwards compatible.

[Molly]

Does that mean you'll fix the script too?
It's vnum 3369.

[Once]

Doesn't look like I'll be able to get to that tonight, but the good news is we now have working elemental focuses.  Fire focuses can cast fire spells with more power than a normal focus (but are standard issue for other elements). They both increase your damage, and increase the effects based on the wood you use, the skill at woodsing, and a few other variables that I'm looking for ideas on. Moves/maxmove would be a kind of cool one, making vitalize a little more useful. The more tired you are the more likely you are to make a mistake with the wood.

I'd also appreciate some ideas on which trees should give which elemental modifiers. Please limit it to one modifier per tree.

[Jaros]

Would be good if the age of the tree made a difference to the multi.  That was always meant to be a factor.

[Molly]

Doesn't look like I'll be able to get to that tonight, but the good news is we now have working elemental focuses.  Fire focuses can cast fire spells with more power than a normal focus (but are standard issue for other elements).

Sounds great!
Of course, what Zsijn is talking about is the ordinary trees that you trade to the lumbermill, not the magic ones that you make staffs from.
But I suppose a certain  number of the ordinary trees turn into magic ones, so the loading percentage should be about equal for both kinds?

I am also not sure that I quite got the part about the elemental focuses.
How do you assign the fire focus to them? Do a certain percentage of all the staffs get it, or is it based on what kind of tree the staff was made from?
Will other focuses get elemental ice or water to counteract the fire spells?

I'd also appreciate some ideas on which trees should give which elemental modifiers. Please limit it to one modifier per tree.

Like I said, there are 50 different kinds of trees, and some of them are a lot more common than others, which I suppose should influence the value of the modifier.
I could post a list of the trees, but that is not much use without the percentage load.

Which elemental modifiers are available?
Are all the available spells sorted under any of the elements fire, water, air, earth?

Also, like Jaros pointed out, the age of the trees should make a difference to the factor - as well as the level of the players woodsing skill.

[Once]

Gonna create a new thread for this and reply to your topic so we don't get too off track with the lumber stuff. I suggest you get Thotter to write you a fancy little lisp script to calculate your tree loading rates for lumberjacking.