Concept for Enhancing Clans

[Molly]

I am on the fence about the voting part - and yes, I know that I suggested it myself.

Viri is quite right that it could - and probably would - be abused, and he should know, seeing as how many clans he and his bro have infiltrated during the years. I'd like to think that players would be mature enough to not abuse everything that can be abused, but experience has taught me otherwise.

Still, I'd like Clans to be more active and self dependent. I'd like Clans to be able to deal with the situation after a 'Coup' in an an ICly way, by starting to plan a Counter Coup.

I'd like Clans to fend for themselves without having to run to the imms to remove a CL who just faded out and disappeared, (and then the imms having to listen to the bitching from said CL, when they return 6 months later and expect nothing to have changed while they were away). To me abandoning your Clan as a CL without appointing a successor is a deadly sin.

So how about we at least implement the removing of a CL after a certain time's inactivity now - and also the Retired rank, (which I think would help CLs who have really lost interest for the Clan to retire with grace)? We could implement those two changes now, and then discuss the rest a bit more.

I must say I like many of Mord's ideas, but they mean big changes, and we shouldn't rush into it without discussing all aspects a bit more.

[Virisin]

I actually like the voting idea the more I think about it for some reason. Currently, clans are dumb. And voting wouldn't fit in the current clan system. But the more I think about a new clan system - the one Mord proposes, the more I think voting would go well. A real clan upheavel.

[Mordecai]

This clan change, if started now, probably wouldn't be in before October.
Considering the amount of building changes it would need.
And the amount of planning and testing it would definitely need.

However, a change like this would permanently add a whole 'nother level to the game, that would, without imm intervention, allow for players to do stuff in the game in an ongoing fashion that didn't just mean grinding mobs for exp.

I think the concept should be pushed through to completion.

And it starts by finishing this draft proposal of how it would all work, so that the creation of this idea can be delegated among the imms as needed.

[Kvetch]

Delegate away.  I'm up for trying anything - in between my building habit.

[Xeriuth]

A few changes I think would work for clans:
Adding physical entrance, so that it is possible to walk in to a clan.  I like
Removing all commodities from a clan. Removing ?ALL? the commodities listed below? that's a bit rough
Enabling a clan points system (these are similar to tokens for players, to buy commodities with). Wonderful, my long awaited idea! Or will the commodities be removed and everyone gets the clan points to buy them back, so all clans start from scratch essentially?? And who will give points out? Imms? With clanleaders it'd be abuseable... I have some ideas on this area I'll address later.
Allowing clans to influence certain mobs and shops to join their faction or cause. I like this idea
Having a morale system, that encourages more NPC clan members to join the clan. I like this idea
Enabling an inter-clan war system. I like this idea

Currently clans get certain commodities:
- Healer
- Recall Item
- Crest
- Board
- Potion Shop (Healing potion, remove curse wand, strength potion)Heals should definitely better
- Utility Shop (Container, food, drink)
- Alignment room good
- Alignment room evil
- Clan House
- Clan Prison
- Clan Meeting Room
- Fountain
- Uniform / Rp Eq
- Exit to a distant zone
- NPC Clan members

I suggest these as additional commodities, which all need code support, and will explain why after:
- Remove recall item, and add a coded recall room in each clan. Is this really essential? But it works if needed for other code tidbits
- Clan Entry Guards Good idea, should come as a default guard that are upgradeable ..perhaps even buyable traps?
- Clan Gate Good idea, just something small and another addition
- Trophy Room
- Weapon Racks Will it be crashproof?
- Armor Shelving Will it be crashproof?  These kind of seem currently just like a clans donation bin box. Essentially useless as you never know when a crash will occur but still handy for show
- Remove Alignment room that does not fit with clans alignment. I agree, in TR we only have a good align room.  I can understand neutral clans having both, and evil clans having just an evil align room.  Perhaps good aligned clans get absolve on a mob, evil gets evil eye and neutral gets simply mobs of both types? With this make some spells need good align to be cast... since lots of spells currently need you to be evil, and not much I can think of require just neutral of just good
- Shop to sell goods collected by the clan members I like this idea a lot, especially if the shop saves the items. Perhaps allowed the item be put in the shop at whatever price desired. Sales go to the clan treasury? And are shops available to the public?

[Xeriuth]

I. Inactivity is a big issue when it comes to clans.  As a DJ you are expected to be an active player of 4D.  Longing on daily would be greatly appreciated, but that is tough to maintain for everyone, but logging on at least once a week should be easily manageable. If you don't think you can be active enough for the clan, then please ask a council member or the clan leader to leave.
            If you know ahead of time that you will not be on for a prolonged period of time, or something comes up notify the Clanleader or Council Member ASAP, post a message on the clan board, or just post a note to all DJ's.  This will allow you to stay in the clan for a time.  If you plan on returning but not for awhile, we would kindly ask that you leave the clan, but let it known that you will be coming back and you will have free passage back into the clan.  If you do not do this, and have not logged on for more than a month, then you will be expelled from the clan.
            If it is the Clanleader who has been inactive for a month without warning he/she will be expelled from the clan by an immortal and the Highest Honor Point member will take over as leader.

            II. Honor Points:  Honor Points are something that is very unique to the Dark-Jedi, no other clan presently has a ranking system quite like ours.  Think of yourselves as a Dark-Jedi through and through and always seek to bring glory to the clan.  No matter what you do, you can be beneficial to the clan.  It doesn't matter what type of player you are or what you like to do you can succeed no matter what.  Here is a list of something things that you can do to bring honor to the clan:
            1. Doing RP sessions that show your loyalty to the Dark-Jedi.
                        a. Any RP session you do that you report to the immortals or place in the forums, let the Dark-Priest or Rank 9 of the clan know and you will receive some award points for doing so.
                        b. Also for simply registering as an RP, you will receive 100 honor points for free!
                        c. Again be sure to tell Rank 9.
2. Completing any Council run quests.
            a. The Honor points given for these quests will be determined when a clan run quest is held.
3. Donating tokens or gold to the clan.
            a. Every 10 million gold is worth 1 honor point
            b. Every Bronze is worth 1 honor point
            c. Any increment of higher values will count towards points, but nothing smaller than 10 million gold or one bronze.
            d. When donating, be sure to give the gold and or tokens to whoever is the Overlord or Rank 10 of the clan.
4. Scouting for potential Jedi.
            a. Just simple keep your eyes peeled for people that you have befriended and could be a potential Dark-Jedi.
            b. Report your findings to Rank 9 of the clan.  He/She will report your findings to the Clanleader, and if your scouting leads to a new member, you will be awarded honor.
5. Collecting scalps from people in other clans, if you're a PK.
a. This is the most rewarding category for all honor points.
b. If you scalp someone…
            3 tiers below your tier- 1 honor points
            2 tiers below your tier- 2 honor points
            1 tier below your tier- 3 honor points
            Your same tier- 4 honor points
            1 tier above your tier- 6 honor points
            2 tiers above your tier- 8 honor points
            3 tiers above your tier- 10 honor points
c. You cannot scalp the same person more than once in a month, nor does anyone in the Seekers guild count. 
d. Also simply registering as a PK entitles you to a free 200 Honor points!
e. You must tell the Dark-Priest or Rank 9 of the Council when you apply for PK to get your honor.  You must also give him/her the scalps to be accounted for.
6. If anyone sees themselves to be experienced in the fields of espionage they can consult the council for more details.
                        a. Honor points will be discussed under such instances.


That was something I had wrote up for DJ's when I was helping them out during the DJ revival.  Just a small light on how inactivity and clan points could be distributed. What do you think? feel free to use and elaborate.

[Xeriuth]

I'll elaborate a bit more on what and how I think clan points should work and ideas revolving around that whole concept.

[Iwku]

I never knew that you were the one that made "The Way of the DJ" point system Xeriuth.  It's really good.

[Virisin]

It's silly.

[Natalya B.]

Just a few things, because some other people have already said things I agree with, no point in me repeating, and as usual I'm doing many things at once...

Regarding CL inactivity, when I took over CL of vamps, I implemented the only thing I think we can currently "do" to try ensure we dont have clans without CLs. There's no set way to manage this without IMM involvement really, but the problems mainly seem to happen when CLs come back from being inactive and chucking a fit.

In Vampires, in a nutshell version, I have layed down set rules and procedures a CL should follow. If a CL becomes inactive for x amount of time, they are to be replaced, and demoted. It's effectively a contract. By taking the position of CL, you accept that if not active for longer than 4 weeks, you will be removed from CL, and the CCL, next highest member, or member voted for CL by other members (OR selected as the "next CL") will come into play.

In vampires, I have already expressed who I'd like to be CL, should I become inactive. First and second choice even. Everyone is aware of the rules.

I have also laid out "application systems" for anyone who wishes to apply for being CL, whether the current one is active or not. Many different variables come into this, and a lot of detail which I won't go into here.

Running a clan is more than just sitting around, occasionally recruiting. I think a lot of clans would run smoother if they had some procedures and policies in place. That way, if it is set in stone, and imms do end up having to follow the instructions left BY the CL in the first place, they cant get in trouble, and the "inactive" CL just needs to accept it.

Cant play, dont step up to the job.

Any of my members are welcome to apply for the CL position from me, should they desire.
And if I am not sufficiently active, I will be replaced.

Lay some rules down for your clan, people.

[Natalya B.]

RE Honor system, I remember speaking to you about that like a year ago, when I was trying to think of how to do it myself.

I'll be doing something similar myself, I hope, with vampires. It's just the HOW to do it which needs to be defined.

It is a good idea though, because I like to "push" my members to new heights. But I'd like to be able to reward my members for what they do too, and new challenges they fulfill..

[Virisin]

Baby steps...

We're getting clans set in the mud now so there are obvious entrance/exits with look descriptions. These will have barriers for the time being, to stop anyone outside your clan from getting through the barrier.

Possible next steps, open for further discussion: Either opening the clanhalls completely so non clan members can enter other clan halls, (boards would remain private), and clans would have the ability to start paying for further protection etc.

Or, clanhall barriers being removed for players from clans at war. ie, if I were to declare war on DJ's, I'd be able to enter their clanhall, they'd be able to enter my clanhall, for the duration of the war.

That's what's on the agenda currently.

[Iwku]

I am assuming that clans will be allowed to keep all their existing exists, and that the new entrance/exit will be free since this is an imm imposed decision vs an individual clan request.  Can the new entrance/exit be made so that mounts (groups) can go through them? And out of curiosity, how do clans currently without exits leave their clan hall? Use a recall scroll each time?

I am strongly against clan halls being open for non-members to enter whenever they wish.  Clans are like private, restricted membership clubs and in real life such clubs are not open to the public, and it makes no IC sense to do it in the game. And it would be really annoying if you are having a meeting or talking to a clan member or waiting for your corpse and some yahoo comes strolling through your clan hall. 

I like the idea of barriers being removed from clan halls for clans who are at war.   Will non-pk clan members be allowed to try to kill intruders?

[Virisin]

There will be ONE entrace/exit per clan, and it will be open for mounts/groups. It is a simple room exit, it's not a portal or anything..

[Kvetch]

And out of curiosity, how do clans currently without exits leave their clan hall? Use a recall scroll each time?

Currently each clan has an exit into the "real" 4D world, but not entrance into the clan from there.  This is what is currently being fixed.  All clans also have a portal room which has about 5 exits into the "real" 4D world - one for each dimension of the world and then one to recall.

I'm not sure how I feel on this.  I can see non-clanmembers gaining access to a 'waiting room' which could have flyers, banners, pens, etc, to give out to possible "recruits", but to let anyone walk through the clan (except for the crashproof room where clanmembers store their stuff, I'm assuming) seems a bit... silly.  That would allow any person to buy objects from any clan that he/she wanted due to the stores the clans have.  Personally, I wouldn't want people running around with the "viking clan only" items just because they could get to the person that has them.

My.. however many cents you want it to be.

Kvetchy