I just want to see how many of our players agree with the new skill tree system

[Tocharaeh]

What Horus just said!

Stupid uninformed poll..

[Kvetch]

Here's what I don't like.  I'm getting accused of being negative about this system because I'm asking questions.  I'm asking questions so I can UNDERSTAND the system - not to say "it's wrong" or "it's bad".  If you guys think people asking questions means they don't like the thing then you're wrong.  Some people - a lot of people - ask questions so they can get more information on something - otherwise you're just going on blind faith and I for one don't do blind faith very well.

So, last night, while being accused of being negative (all I wanted was info ), I did have a sit down with Horus to try and get the lowdown.  My understanding is that my understanding before is completely off-base.  Thank you for that.  AT least I know I was wrong.  The closest thing he and I could come to for a comparasion (that we both at least half knew - not sure how well he knows this as he called it "complex" - silly boy) was the skills/feats system in D&D 3rd edition.  If you know that system then bear with me on this as I try to explain to those that don't.

In D&D 3rd ed you get points that you spend on your skills (In D&D skills are things like Listen, search, handle animal, various SKILLS that classes need to get along in the world), but you choose your feats (this would be like knowing how to use a sword or how to backstab someone, or a variety of other skilly-type things but aren't "skills" that you put points in) and you either have them (yay!) or don't (boo). 

The system Horus described to me sounded a lot like using the feat type things (probably because most of the D&D skills are a given on 4D - listen, search, etc) and you would put points (you get some - I don't know how many or even if it has been decided - every level) into the skill you want to level.  Of course, the higher the skill, the higher the bonus.  Example being if you have the skill Call lightning and you put say 20 points into it, your modifier may be 4X where if you only but 10 points in it your modifier is only 2X.

Just putting this part in - even if it was only replacing what we have now - would highly clarify how your points are being spent on the skills.  Currently it seems to be either hit or miss and you may hit more if you have a higher skill in it, but the more points you have in a skill doesn't seem to affect (though I could be wrong) the amount of damage you do - just how often you may hit.  Now I belive the things that have multipliers because of weather (call lightning being one of them) will still have a multiplier.  Again, I'm only guessing.

Other various info drug out of Horus (he begged and pleaded for his life):
Each skill would "max" at 20 (I'm assuming like in D&D that makes 20 = 100%?)
You can get to level 21 in a skill by questing for it. (Hmm.. this makes my assumption in above line wrong.)
21 is the max "mortal" rank.  (seems us silly IMM's may be able to have a higher rank... Mwahahahaha.)
50 is the still the max "mortal" level though there is talk of possibly having some "hero" levels between mortal and IMM levels

Thus is the info I thought I gleaned from my torturous questioning (negatively?) of Horus.  I may have made a mistake or two, but I"m sure he'll let you know.

As for my negativity (yeah, I'm going back to that), I've thought for a long time (just ask Mord, I'm sure he remembers my questioning insight) that 4D needed something else - of course that was during the time that D&D had just switched from AD&D to 3rd edition which means from a system I half understood (Explain Thac0 to me again? If you have no armor you are at 0, your armor and magic crap gives you a - to your AC and depending on your opponents level they have to roll... let me check my Thac0 chart... *mutter*) to a system I can easily understand (oh.. you start with 10AC, add your Dex, add your armor and any magic crap that adds armor and that's the number the bad guy has to hit with all his variables... got it).  Yes, the above is also why I don't understand how armor works in 4D and why when anyone asks the question "do I want better armor or not" I just hope someone else is on that understands the question.

Now, if you've any questions, please direct them to... Horus (though he will accuse you of being negative as will Tochy because you dare ask them there questions).

Thanks for listening,

Kvetchy

[horus]

Lets make this perfectly clear, if someone came along and said I have read your post but I dont understand this particular aspect of skill trees, can you explain this to me, I am more than happy to oblige. However, if someone says to me, "I dont understand why you want to add skill trees when what we have is awesome already", that is NOT a question, that is rhetoric, so dont blame me if I am going to whack you with my Ugly Stick of Disdain and prod your bulbous, gaseous tummy with my Poker of Utter Contempt.

I have spent quite a fair amount of time explaining to various people about skill trees to those that actually have asked, and those that I havent provided the proper answer to, well, now you know why I havent done so. Those that grandstand shall be met with my Party Of Uber Goodness, with my gypsy inspiring me with his newly acquired song of Heroic Deeds providing me with +10 accuracy, and the soon-to-be-fixed archery skill providing me with the ability to fire my Arrow of Nutcase Slaying across several rooms with the force to knock you down through Kingdom Come!

[Tocharaeh]

BTW- My gypsies rock!

Toch = Badass gypsy in skill trees!

Also, ask horus the questions if you want specifics. He understands the finer details infinitely better than myself. I understand the gameplay, but if you want the nitty gritty..leave it all for the coder.

PS; I love you kvetchy

Also, I agree with horus. We both have been bombarded with more rhetoric than actual questions. Too many assumptions have been made, and rumors spread based on uninformed assumptions. Do what lvetchy did, and ask the questions, and listen.

Finally,

AC? Oh taht's easy to explain but only because I actually took up armor smithing irl for a couple years, and learned those finer arts.

+20 ac = basically a piece of thin cotton (cotton shirt)
-20 AC = Plate mail which is made up of roughly (I'm going to make up a number) 4 gauge steel (or iron, whatever). This is THICK, and heavy. Therefore it makes sense for someone to slow down, thigh greater the gauge (greater being closer to 0, and actual negatives in respect to metal gauge.).

If you type worth you'll see the dmg %ages that morde cleverly made to clear up confusion. Although we have say -44 AC, in worth you should understand how that distributes across the body. The lumped AC value just shows you overall how this effects your speed. However, I never have agreed with magical AC slowing you down due to it does not actually create any weight, but stregthens your armor magically. I've always felt that should be fixed, but whether or not that will get changed, I don't know.

-Toch