Player Wipe (PWipe)

[Virisin]

I started playing when I was 11, I'm 19 now.. 8 years max.

Sarias is younger than me, Riley is younger than me, Siresee, Emory, Jason and Belg are all older than me but I wouldn't call active members of the playerbase. Xeri is younger than me, Hayato is younger than me, Once and Turin are older, but again not exactly active members of the playerbase, Kvetch is younger than me, Natalya is older than me...

Irrelevant really, seeing as Sarias and Riley are the only two active members of the playerbase you just mentioned.

Again you havn't responded to anything I've said, and I'm hardly just bashing one's words time and time again. I'm being as constructive as possible however it's getting to the point where I'm just repeating things I said on page 2 because you're just rewording your posts time after time. I have seen Prometheus post, I have seen Kvetch post, I have seen Diandra post, I have seen Molly and Anubis post multiple times. Who else are you waiting for?

[Asmodeus]

Just for the record, i was here before Viri

[Virisin]

Think you're pretty cool huh? You realize that lumps you in with Jason, Natalya, Once, Turin, Tocharaeh and Siresee right?

I don't even know what I'm getting at here. 

[Asmodeus]

yes as a matter of fact, i am pretty cool, thank you for noticing! 

[horus]

This is to Tochy, dude I have made enough posts on this matter and so has Molly. Diandra and Kvetch has made their points known as well and so has Prom.

A complete wipe is necessary, or we might as well not pwipe at all. I have always thought 4D was unique because of the great zones, and now, what you are saying is, just delete the levels etc and that only leaves you leveling - so yo are basically saying, you would rather just level in 4D and not enjoy the MAIN aspect of 4D, even if you have done it before?

Like I said in my previous posts, there are numerous reasons why a complete pwipe is necessary, and add to those reasons, we get to clean alot of unwanted junk (like very old, uber eq) that may cause imbalance to the game. So, economic reasons, inflationary reasons, cleaning out of old eq, and most importantly game balance. Consequence of this is we get to lower prices, which benefits the players that need them most - lower level players. Everything will then have a reason, things make more sense.

Instead of now, where potions and spells are at crazy prices, so newbies cant afford them, but the players who can afford them dont need it because they are either powerful or they already have spells that can live off without using coins. Now, gold coins are useless, TPs are next to useless, and so everything that is of value gets charged in tokens instead. So we really only have one currency - tokens.

Those are powerful reasons Tochy, very powerful. I'd do a pwipe just to maintain balance ALONE, let alone all the other wonderful reasons for a pwipe.

Now, list me a few UNSELFISH reasons why we shouldnt have this complete pwipe, reasons that will benefit the entire 4D and not just a select group of players.

I am tired of repeating that last point - I have listed all GAME BENEFITS, but there really isnt any game benefits not to have a pwipe.

[Tocharaeh]

You know what. Not once have I seen anything concrete enough to sway my vote form depends to yes.

How does making me re-purchase my OWN stuff make things all hunky dory?

I love how currently the votes are split in half.

Give me VALID reasons why I should have to reinvest MY time into a game that just took everything away from me? You see it as selfish, I see it as my right as a longtime player here, as do the other 50% of the players who have NOT voted yes.

You want to re-balance gear? Great, once it's done then gimmie my newly balanced perzes. I paid for them. I may only have like 3 or 4, but you know what. they are MINE.

You say I'm selfish, and I reply "You bet I am.". You're trying to take MY time spend here away. What I've invested should be mine.

So if I bother to perz an item that I got form one of the hardest mobs in the game, that took HOURS to kill...am I wasting my time then? Am I going to have to spend HOURS to solo the same god forsaken mob just so you're happy?

I don't care if you wipe my other gear. I just don't. it is what FEW pieces I DO have I don't want to lose because some people are too thick headed and SELFISH to think about others concerns. You busy calling everyone who does not agree with you stupid, and you've yet to really be willing to meet us half way. We're willing to lose everything except for what we have paid for. how is that NOT fair?

If you just go through with a pwipe, it wont stop me playing. However, if the pbase suddenly drops sharply and we see less and less of my dear friends- I will not waste a single moment in telling you I told you so. You guys really have no clue how negatively a pwipe can impact a pbase. No clue at all. Especially a unique pbase like ours taht actually HAS to quest instead of doing auto-questing like larger muds do.

[Tocharaeh]

So after a long and rather obnoxious discussion at Recall this is what I am hearing:

1) The value of tokens are GOING to go down. This would mean that it wouldn't (and should have never ever) cost 1 gold for a friggin marriage. It may only cost you a handful of silver to perz items, mounts, houses, and so on.

2) They really REALLY wanna pwipe.

3) Items are supposedly going to be changed to be balanced with the upcoming system which means you could end up with shitty perzes in the long run unless it's like the rainbow serpent skin.

So to you I say this: If you can guarantee the drop in value of tokens where the general PBASE will actually BENEFIT from them rather than those who abuse bug, and farm the hell out of everything. Then you'll have my YES vote.

Everyone should know that I have and have always maintained a very small amount of tokens. I'm not a farmer, and have never been as such. I explore, map, and rp. I quest the major quest zones, and then go about my rp-filled life. I am a social butterfly, not a hoarder. I never have been. I never will be. It just isn't my style

I cling to what I have earned because I know that what little I have, I have earned honestly and proudly. I have customized things to fit my rp stories.  This isn't about my wanting to be top dog as thotter would LOVE to believe. I don't care about that kind of stuff. For me it has and will always continue to be about character development. What I own are products of that development. It's not the stats at all. It's what I've written, and worn for so many years now, even if they are only 3 items, and one mount.

[Virisin]

Once gear is rebalanced it's likely your perzes won't even be the best equipment in the game.. I don't understand why you are so adamant about keeping your set of equipment when after a PWipe, half of it won't be the best equipment in the game, you won't have any tokens and you will have all the flags and not be able to get anymore tokens..

You seem to be punishing yourself here and I'm kinda just confused really. The only real reason I can see is that you currently have a neck item that is better than any alternative neck item in the game, and that no one else in the game could possibly get. It kinda reminds me of Jason's scimitar, only that was cheating, yours is just an RP reward. Why in the hell someone thought uber equipment would be a good idea to use as an RP reward is frankly mind-boggling especially when there are no guidelines around it. Either way, I thought you were a pretty avid RPer and would do it for the sake of it, not for the rewards. Maybe that's not right?

[Tocharaeh]

I love how whenever someone has something you don't have...you use it to support your argument. Viri, I will never understand you.

I clearly stated that you'd get a yes vote out of me if the token system would really change for the better. Why on earth are we arguing further on this matter?

[Virisin]

Sorry, replied to that before seeing your second post. And yes, when someone has something I don't have that I cannot get, it does bother me. I am a competitive player and I strive to be the best. It's fairly simple.

On 1. I'm not entirely sure the value of tokens is definitely going to go down. I havn't talked to Anubis about it, but there are a heck of a lot of tokens available out there and I see no reason to decrease their value at all.

On 2. Yep

On 3. Yes they are.

Why is guaranteeing the drop in value of tokens the only thing that will give us your yes vote? That just makes the game easier.. Is an easier game what you've been gunning for this whole time?

[Riley]

Oh, I forgot to say I'd play again, because I"d have something new to do!

If you want something new to do start a new charater, or RP, or build a new zone, find something to do.

I don't support a pwipe, never will.  I don't like to spend my time on achieveing something just to get it all stripped away.  From my experience on another mud it took months if not years to get enough quest points to get gear from those was like 15K points to get an awesome weapon, and being active in questing each time to achieve that point of getting that all from like 10 to 20 points per quest, was something I enjoyed working for.  But, would I want to do that all over again? No, and I just feel that's the same way here, and mind you that mud had about 10-15 ACTIVE players (not counting their multiplayed chars) which would bring up the boot time highs to 20+.  With one pwipe killed the mud.

People probably still wonder why I still haven't bother to remort Riley yet.  I would, but I don't want to lose any more spells or skills than I already have with the stupid trainers...

Whether or not you do a pwipe to set us all on "even" ground (even used lightly cause nothing is ever fully even unless the whole mud was redone). That won't draw in new players like you would expect it would.  Old players will leave, new players might come, and what really changes?  Instead of a few level 50's sitting at recall you have a few level 1's sitting at recall cause they don't want to work to get anything else done, because in a year or two there will just be another pwipe.

[Jason Orsini]

Riley Joins the Band of Philosophers. former members,
Darvus the wise, Alexis the wise II, and now Riley the wise III.
Hail the Philosophers. down with the pwipe

[Virisin]

I think Riley came before Alexis to be honest.

[Tocharaeh]

Oh, just want to comment on the rp award thingy:

You were extremely active in 2007, and chose not to participate when the IMMs had the big event for xmas. Everyone who participated actually got something, runners up got tokens and so on. The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd got items of varied value. To me this is extremely fair.

Be pissed off at cheater equipment and so on. Don't get pissed at players who try to be as involved as possible when things come up, and fight for those prizes.

Personally, if you won a cool ankle piece or earring because of an event. More power too you. You'd never ever hear me comnplain about it. You put int the effort, and the imms saw that.

Oh and I've been working on writing a very nice RP event for 4d concerning Tocharaeh as the Arch-Villain. Winners of the event would each get something unique. I think that any event is no different than a zone quest, but since an event may only ever happen once (depending on the degree/extent of the event) there is no reason why rewards cannot be unique.

Just my 2 cents.

[Natalya B.]

SO you're saying you haven't been here since 2000? If not, you're one of the oldest? I beg to differ

Let's see, I think Sarias has been here since 2002/3.
Riley earlier than Sarias I believe, but not by much.
Siresee, I remember when she was a newb. And she came not too long after me.
Emory, see above.
Tynian 1998, about the same time as me, a tad later. We became DJ assassins together.
Jason not too much later than that I think.
Belgarion, about the same as me. though now he's all invis and stuff. I may be wrong, maybe  a tad later than me..or earlier. I dun
              remember.
Xeriuth= ??
Hayato = ??
Yvei = He's popped in and out of here since 1999! I know because he's my little brother and I got him into mudding.
Once dates back to me.
Turin dates back to be.
Kvetch = hrm, 2004 maybe, correct me if i'm wrong kvetchie.
I would need numbers from Asmoday, and Asmodeus, but I think 2001/2ish for them. I could be wrong.
Natalya = ??
Virisin dates back to what? = You say you've not been here since 2000, so WHEN did you come here?

So we're really looking at what...7+ years? Nice. Not much of an exaggeration so far as I can tell. I ball parked it, I didn't exaggerate.


your opinions are your own, even if they're very STRONG ones. but listen. You cannot just say something is worth nothing when CLEARLY it is worth SOMETHING to someone. You're willing to cut your losses pbase wise to get what you want? That is not what playing and investing time into 4D is about. People didn't create chars, and build histories here to get screwed in the end.

So instead of debating how long the majority has been here, and whether or not something actual means anything to anyone. Let's have an actual constructive debate rather than bashing one's words time and time again. Viri, I hate to say it but your constant replies to every single post on here is more counter productive than anything. It is your idea, now leave it up to others to get their words in. Namely the IMMs.

btw- why do we have 20+ votes, and only like 5 people actually POSTING?

I started here when I was 12. I'm 23 years old now (24 next year). Sooooo.. I go back to 1998 too.