Avatars

[Virisin]

I like it.

[Kvetch]

Xeri is right in pointing out that basically levels 105-110 become pk levels.  I mean, if I never pk, I don't know HOW to seriously pk - and I admit, I don't PK and I don't know how to PK - I'm a sitting duck for any pker that comes by if I'm in a pk area even if they're level 1 and I'm level 50.  If you have to PK to get the level, then how is it not pk levels?  But, having said that, I'm not sure if there is any other way that having the higher levels that could be challenged, and I'd like to see people be able to challenge for them.  Do we do riddles?  Puzzles? Quests?  Something that doesn't involve PK just sounds rediculous in the mud.  Once you do a riddle, you know the answer so the next time you're challanged and you get that riddle, there's the answer.  *shrug*  So, until a non-pk idea comes up, I have to agree with the pk one - whether or not I really like it.

[Prometheus]

I agree with Kvetch we need an alternate path at least up to 109 or 108 for non-pk or non-arena players.

And honestly I played on a mud which had 501 levels with 500 being normal and 501 being avatar quest level. Then they changed it to 110 with 100 being normal leveling and 101 to 110 being quest based.

Honestly I don't want to play on that system again been there done that for me. So I will stick with being Prom.

Prometheus

[Xeriuth]

Didn't ruby only win KOTM due to abusing Call Lightning with a major focus allowing no one to have any shot at all?  Could be just a rumor, but that's what I heard...

[Virisin]

After conversation today it seems like a few non-PKers would throw a fit if levels 105-109 were even at all combat based. Alternate paths seem impossible unless someone can come up with something that isn't PK, RP has it's merits but is seriously subjective.. I hate it when 20 line emotes filled with adjectives is somehow 'good RPing' but that's another story. And even if RPing was another path to level 109, we still have to worry about the non-PK and non-RP players.. To be honest I don't think there is another aspect of 4d that could be made seriously competitive, except maybe horse racing but that seems a bit pathetic compared to PK and RP.. Space fights maybe? Might be too combat centered for the non-PKers.

Either way I'd rather this avatar system just be turned into a PK ladder system, and make the highest level possible 100. Because it seems even if there were no rewards at all for being level 109 rather than level 105, people are still not happy.

[Xeriuth]

So, maybe a thread on PK ladder?

[Tocharaeh]

what's PK about death safe arenas?

Why not just make an arena that people can channel on public official channels for positions and stuff? Nonpks shouldn't be afraid in the slightest about dying by my blade...because they're safe...they've just lost their spot.

I like real arenas anyhow. I hate the whole arena thing in Old Yorke. I've always been keen on those auto arenas where you can just challenge some mo-fo, and people see the challenges and can watch the fight in the arena stands (which I think should be linked to recall somewhere hehe).

Those are real arenas. IMMs can open the killing fields for the bloodbath (multiple challengers) like we have now, but the other arena would be open all of the time for simple one on one battles.

[Xeriuth]

I like those challenge systems, with little mini zones for each. One could be just one room, no fleeing or retreating just pure fight to the death. Could get all interesting.

[Molly]

I'm confused.
We already have permanently open arenas, which I think are 4-6 room grids. One is the Tournament place, one step down from the center, the other is the Camelot Arena. Anyone, including spectators can go there for safe fights any time.
We also have the Gladiators, which currently also are open to anyone - although that might change after we implement the skilltrees.

Can you be a bit more specific about what it is you want, please? Is it a public challenge system? Or a public system to keep track of who has the most wins? Or a secluded area where only the two comabatnts can enter?

All those things should be pretty easy to implement, in fact some of it exists already in the Arena code.

[Xeriuth]

All combined. Say when you type challenge player, it offers an actual challenge that they can decline or accept, perhaps an accept 5 which would give 5 min of prepartion. Both players are transported to the arena where they fight to the death, or multiple players. Now an idea for how people can actually safely view the fight would be such as a limited snoop ability for only those that are in arena. Say Virisin and I are fighting, they can see the fight through my eyes destroying Virisin, not seeing the commands and such I type, but the actual output of typing them, only the combat ones as to decrease spam for them. I'm sure it'd be possible to do something like that, not sure how difficult though.  If the system could keep track of how many times they've challenged, been challenged, challenges to them accepted or rejected, challenges won and lost. Of course you could also only challenge those close to your level.

[Virisin]

This is quite off-topic from avatars now because people don't want avatars to be combat related in order to progress. I'd still love avatars because it gives an open-ended game and such, but apparently too many people are not interested in PvP combat at all so I'm not really sure avatars will work at all. I don't see any other objective way of determining who is better than who at something with enough weight in 4d to require it to be the end-game, other than combat.

This is why we're now discussing some form of proper PK ladder system.

[Molly]

I'm actually all for the idea of the Avatar levels being 100% combat based, as long as it is mostly an honorary position, which doesn't give huge in game advantages. I really don't see any realistic way to code in similar things for exploring and questing. And after all, combat is a major part of the game.

You don't even have to be PK to get the Avatar levels, but it probably will be the PKillers that are mostly interested in the positions, because they are the most competitive. So what? It gives you the PK ladder you want, it gives the PKillers a goal to strive for, and it provides an open ended game.

I really think Avatars is a brilliant idea, the way Anubis describes the setup.

We should probably try do something similar with artifacts. A limited number in the game that you'd have to compete for. And make them lootable in Arena fights to give non PKillers a chance too. Whoever owns an artifact, has to defend it in the arena when challenged for it, or they'd automatically lose it. A bit like an extended BBV.

But then again, that's probably a bad idea. It's late and I am too tired to think about consequences.

[Virisin]

I am absolutely with you on that one Molly.