Subraces

[Kvetch]

Since no one else is doing it and Jason seems to prefer not to post on the forums, I decided I'd drag this idea over onto the forum so it can be discussed and perused at leisure and not be deleted at the whim of someone cleaning the boards.  *blinks ever so innocently*

The idea is to come up with some subraces that perhaps we could implement on 4D to give it a little more RP flavor.  There would be no bonuses that go with the subraces, just something to help with RP or whatnot.

Tochy's response was:

Dwarves: Deep Dwarves (dwarf version of dark elves but evil...just anti-
 none dwarf)
 
 Deep Dwarves:
 
  These dwarves live far underground and tend to be more standoffish with
  non-dwarves. Deep dwarves are the same height as other dwarves, but
 leaner. Their skin sometimes has a reddish tinge, and their large eyes
 lack the brightness of those of their kindred, being a washed-out blue.
 Their hair color ranges from bright red to straw blond. They have little
 contact with surface dwellers, relying on hill dwarves or mountain
 dwarves to trade goods for them.
 
 
Mountain Dwarves:
   
  Mountain dwarves live deeper under the mountains than hill dwarves but
  generally not as far underground as deep dwarves. They average about 4-
  1/2 feet tall and have lighter skin and hair than hill dwarves, but the
  same general appearance.

Elves: Dark elves (not drow), and Wild elves.

Wild Elves:
 
 
 Wild elves are barbaric and tribal. Wild elves hair color ranges from
 black to light brown, lightening to silvery white with age. They dress in
 simple clothing of animal skins and basic plant weaves.

Dark Elves:
 
 
 Dark elves, a culture of elves,[1] with a few eladrin among their
 number,[2] known as Ssri-tel-quessir in the elven tongue [3], are
 frequently confused with drow. It doesn't help that the two terms are
often times used interchangeably, even by elves themselves.
 
 Dark elves have dark brown skin, as opposed to the ebony skin that drow
 have. They also have black hair instead of white and no darkvision. Dark
 elves are also not tainted with the daemon blood that forever separates
 the dark elves, and the drow who are forever cursed to live in the
 underdark.


I responded that I wouldn't mind something "draconic" in nature.

Anyone else?

[Kvetch]

Perhaps the hardest part of creating sub-races is to base them off the races we currently have (because isn't a sub-race based off an existing race?).  These are the current races in the game:

- Centaur           (Prehistoric)
- Dwarf             (Medieval)
- Elf               (Medieval)
- Faun              (Prehistoric)
- Gringo            (OldWest)
- Indian            (OldWest)
- Martian           (Future)
- Spacewolf         (Future)

Perhaps the easiest way would be to make a good/bad "race" for each of these and perhaps a 3rd that would be considered mostly neutral (for those that aren't sure they want to play good or bad - or that could just be the base race if someone doesn't choose a sub-race). 

Kentauroi could be the "evil" subrace of Centaurs (it is the name of a tribe of centaur's in greek myth).
Chironus could be the "good" subrace of centaurs (named after Chiron - the centaur teacher of many greek heroes).

Having been "born and bred" on D&D for ages, I have trouble stepping back from the D&D races and subraces presented in their manuals, though most of them have even earlier origins in mythology.  I'm just listing the above of an example of a way to create a subrace without using the D&D ones already created.

Kvetch

[Once]

What if it's not a sub-race, but instead some sort of remort race? Something that you advance or evolve into after you reach a certain level of power. It'd need to be somewhat more unique, and the bonuses should be something more horizontal (meaning different, not just better stats).


That said:  Is everyone actually happy with races the way they are? They seem a mite unbalanced.

[Virisin]

People have complained about races for a while now, a few of those things:

Indian/Gringo are just too types of human, not separate races.

Some races get benefits that are much better than other races, the differences between wear locations on the one hand, and the differences between bonuses on the other. Centaurs and Martians also get inherent benefits like mount and infravision.

[Molly]

The races are part of 4D history, so I'm a bit touchy about that.
I'm all for balancing the existing races however, and I'm not adamantly against adding more races either. But is more races really what 4D needs? We seem to have problems balancing the ones we have. I never thought that Muds with a gazillion races is really a good idea.

I don't particularly like the idea of good-evil variations of the same race, there should be better ways to handle alignment.

In the past we've toyed a bit with the idea of 'afflictions' as a remort choice.
An affliction would be something that is independent of race and class but adds a some attributes to the character, (and there should be both advantages and disadvantages of course).

The obvious first choices for afflictions would be Vampire and Werewolf, both could be cool features, and with the Moon phases code, we now have what would be needed for Werewolves. Many Muds have Vampires and Werewolves as races, but logically you should keep your original race, so to me an  affliction is a better approach. I even had a concept for Vampires worked out in the old days, and I bet Tocharaeh has another for Werewolves hidden in a drawer somewhere.

Perhaps that old idea could be something to develop?

[Jaros]

Subraces are a dumb idea.

Why not get rid of set races, let people choose a selection of wear-locs and attributes and then call themselves what they like?

That solves balance issues and I can't think of a problem with it.

Edit: doesn't stop you having Afflictions either.

[Virisin]

I like the idea of afflictions more than I like the idea of sub-races. As Molly said, good/evil align versions of one race should be dealt with on the RP/player side, and by choice through wear locations and attributes as Jaros said.

Classless system woo