Author Topic: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code  (Read 13619 times)

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Offline Prometheus

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Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« on: June 26, 2010, 04:17:47 pm »
All,

I am making this thread as a separate topic so people can be kept up on the future changes to the code. So here I go. Per discussion with Anubis on the following:

Anubis asked about Attacks per prompt and if we should still use speed as the main stat in attacks. I said the following that we should have multiple attacks per turn based on a few stats ie like speed / dex / strength / proficiency with weapon and also if you case a spell or change equipment you lose an attack per prompt.

And Anubis can input if I said something wrong about the above as well.

And remember people if Anubis asked for your opinion please give it to him since I was the only one who did when he discussed this over gossip. If you want changes implied you need to voice your desires. Or you can reply to this thread and I will get them to Anubis.

Prometheus
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 11:45:46 pm by Prometheus »

Offline Virisin

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 01:21:42 am »
Speed should ideally be removed from weapon proficiencies etc, allowing for more diversity in skill trees. Someone could specialize into clubs and high speed, sacrificing high power, or clubs and high power, sacrificing low speed.

Offline Kvetch

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2010, 07:43:36 pm »
But speed of the weapon should also be included (imo) because you can swing/stab a dagger much faster than you can swing/stab a lance/polearm/any awkward weapon like those.  And character armor encomberance should also play a factor - someone not wearing platemail would be faster than someone wearing platemail.  And character speed itself - a lanky, lean elf should be faster than a short, fat dwarf (no offence inteded to dwarves or elves - though that would probably be covered more by dex than by a speed stat) and then character specialization as per Viri's post.

I'd almost go with the D&D version of DEX added to ranged attacks (you can grab your arrows/darts/whatever faster to get more attacks) and STR to melee attacks (you can hit your victim so powerfully that you are able to get more attacks in per round).  *shrug*

Offline Virisin

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 12:29:26 am »
But speed of the weapon should also be included (imo) because you can swing/stab a dagger much faster than you can swing/stab a lance/polearm/any awkward weapon like those.  And character armor encomberance should also play a factor - someone not wearing platemail would be faster than someone wearing platemail.
I agree with this.

And character speed itself - a lanky, lean elf should be faster than a short, fat dwarf (no offence inteded to dwarves or elves - though that would probably be covered more by dex than by a speed stat) and then character specialization as per Viri's post.
Can't decide on this, I really hate any kind of set race characteristics at all really, because there are so many different interpretations of the races. I want to be a Satyr, and so choose Faun. Satyr is quite a different build to Faun though and I would want to be able to show that with my character description and become that with my specialisation choices, without being help back because 4d thinks Fauns are short and fat and playful.

Offline Tocharaeh

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 01:23:18 am »
Combat speed:

    Weapon speed should not be confused with encumbered speed. Why? Because armor is worn on the body, and unless you're wearing long sleeves of chainmail, with platemail covering your arms, weapon speed shouldn't be affected. Why? Because I speak with 17 years of RL experience on how this stuff works.
     "awkward" weapons that move slower carry more power behind them. Therefore, there should be a slight dmg boost due to the added weight. However, please keep in mind that just because someone has a spear, doesn't mean he'll move slower than a guy with a sabre. In fact, the guy with the spear can gain a higher defense, and an added attack due to the fact that a person using their staff, or spear never use just one side. Unless of course it is a pike, or halberd. Lances, Claymores,  and Flamberges that are very slow and very very heavy would cause someone to lose an attack, and have a heightened chance of real damage being inflicted should they strike their mark.

Encumbered speed:

     When one is donning full plate (no such thing ever (EVER) happens in 4D), their movements are slowed down but unlike in the movies, you never really saw knights in ridiculously large pieces of armor that weighed down their arms. Why? Because that would be suicide. If you were a shieldsman, you protected the shield arm which in turn held the shield, which in turn guarded your sword arm, which was less armored than the rest of your body. The most you ever saw in armor for arms would be pauldrons, and vembraces. The weight of pauldrons were carried on the shoulders, and the bracers covered your forearms, but they never weighed very much. I don't think I've ever worn something even close to a pound/kilo on my arms.
     To be honest, the only way to properly balance this is through the Armor Class system. Armor truly should not take away form combat speed, since all we do is stand there and beat each other up. It CAN however hurt fleeing, retreating, kicking, bashing, beheading, snaring, and other such actions that require the whole of the body.

Weapon speed needs to be factored by the following:

     1) Skill in the weapon type
     2) Type of weapon
     3) Weight/Size of said weapon.

Which brings me to my next suggestion: Regulate weapon weights and sizes.

You set certain parameters within the building code to prevent over-sizing of a weapon (and under-sizing), and over/under-weighting the weapon.

The only time we should see a weight of 1 on a great sword is when it's an artifact or quest weapon type.
This would of course mean...dare I say?....creating additional choices in the OLC for builders for weapon types. :)

Anyway, I digress.

Amounts of attacks should only be dependent on the weapon, your skill in that weapon, and its weight depleting your fighting speed.
Movement speed is done via AC.


Also, races.

We need a few more races, and races need to be better written. I'd love to see an actual Satyr race actually. Oh, and my Space Goldfish.


My 30 cents.

-Tocharaeh D'Araesth
The Dirty Ol'' Drow that time left behind in fear of obliteration!

Offline Virisin

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 01:51:16 am »
Your 3000000000 cents  :P

Offline Tocharaeh

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 12:46:31 am »
teehee!
-Tocharaeh D'Araesth
The Dirty Ol'' Drow that time left behind in fear of obliteration!

Offline Tor

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 07:26:51 am »
Speed of bringing a weapon to bear, or making a successful strike, even hitting a target with a projectile weapon requires the proper positioning of the entire body, not just arm/hand speed. Greater strength allows the being to move faster while bearing more weight as well as striking harder. Balance and dexterity are also essential in scoring the hit as everything from foot positioning on determines the power, accuracy, speed and force of the attack. Skill with the weapon, or empty handed combat form add to these.

A player skilled with a rapier would not be able to apply those skills to a heavy sword, but one skilled with a heavy blade, understanding the differences between it and a rapier could utilize skills, such as thrust and parry quite well, their speed with the lighter weapon being much higher than with the heavy one, and the accuracy maintained. The same physics involved in the sword weights and lengths would apply to clubs.

A person skilled in the use of a ranged weapon with a short sighting radius will be even more effective with a long sight radius, assuming they have the strength to wield the weapon effectively, but the reverse does not follow.

Short edged weapons, or a short blunt objects, improve the effectiveness of hand to hand combat. A blow to the carotid artery with an open hand, or fist, it can be instantly disabling. The same strike with a dagger will cause the victim to bleed out quickly, but not instantly disable, depending on their commitment to killing you. Other targets on the opponent will provide similar results. Weight added to the blow can increase the impact severity, but at a reduction of the speed and accuracy, dependent on the strength of the player.

Hmm... perhaps commitment, tenacity and courage should be added. After all faint heart never won fair maiden. And luck, there is always the possibility of landing a lucky blow, or having your opponent trip on a shoe lace!

Summing this up; attack speed and accuracy should be based on speed, strength, dexterity, weapon and armor class. A player barely able to lift and balance a weapon is probably a dead player, regardless of his training with it or the awesomeness . Pretty much I agree with my understanding of what Prom, Kvetch and Toch have said.

Regarding the race choices, I also think a satyr is different fawn and might be cool, but there will always be a limited number of species in a world. If I remember correctly 4D has a race that is considered standard, gringos? Other races gain or lose attributes from these, but the majority of weapons, armor, etc. would reflect the design of the weapons and there would be races that would not be able to effectively utilize the equipment. A paw might be able to hold a weapon designed for a gringo hand, but not control it effectively. There should be an all supreme, super powerful, extra virile, extremely handsome, envied by all, totally awesome, undefeatable, viking race available only to Tor... and maybe a goldfish added. Make your choices from what is there. :P

Sorry, I didn't start out to write a book.



 

Offline Virisin

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 05:06:43 pm »
4d has 2 races per dimension, and I'm pretty sure adding more races isn't going to happen in the near future. What I would like to see is all the current race attributes removed, so players don't feel pushed into certain races just because they would be more beneficial for their desired character.

Offline Tor

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 11:59:54 am »
I disagree. Races, (or species), should have different attributes. Some having greater strength, etc. while others have greater intelligence. I believe that someone gave thought to the balance of these attributes when they were created. While it appears that a centaur/thief may be the most popular combo among player killers, one must choose if the pk ability out weighs their desire for the species of their character to align with the other aspects of their role playing. I know others have made this choice. I feel there should be much more difference between a Centaur and a Faun, than between a Gringo and Indian, but that isn't how it is.

Offline Tor

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 02:07:16 pm »
It seems that the difference between gringo and indian have been changed.

Offline Tor

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Re: Tracking Thread for future changes to 4D code
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 05:20:45 pm »
Should magically enbued armor, or magic armor/shield spells decrease speed when they lower the AC of a player? I don't believe that spells increase the encumbrance or the weight being worn/carried. I mean its magic;) Or do they?