Revamping artifact system

[Prometheus]

I can see Artifacts not having timers. Not sure about Max load on artifacts but hey I'm a minority. Now thing I do have to reply to is most immortals ARE PLAYERS. So when an Immortal replies we are replying from both the immortal and mortal side of things. So please lets not insult immortals or others. So be nice Jaros

I also like the idea of random loading artifacts. That would reduce the chance of people hoarding Artifacts but  the other thing is that lots of Artifacts have variables on them (I could be wrong since I don't build so if a builder could answer this for me or someone who knows). So now who is going to go through and make all of those changes to scripts. I'm guessing that all of the artifacts will need to be manually edited to remove max load. Not sure if we could run a script outside of the game to strip the Max load. Again this is outside of my area of knowledge.

Remember I don't know much about artifacts so don't blast me too much on it

Prometheus

[Molly]

Allow me to give you some historical background here: 

Originally artifacts were meant to be very rare, possibly unique items, hard to get, and consequently a bit better than other items.
Hence the random seldom load and the maxload.
Some of them loaded on strong mobs, others in containers that were reset so that there only was a chance of the content loading when the mud rebooted.

The way the code was supposed to work was that no more of an artifact would load, if there was already a number exceeding the maxload in the game. However, if a player logged out with an artifact, that wasn't taken into the maxload, because then it wasn't 'in the game'.

In the old days artifacts didn't go poof, and you could sell them to other players for hefty sums. As the older players have testified, they were much sought after, cool and popular and prestigious.

Then the word spread about the locations, since some players would always blab about secrets.
Then some players started to hoard them, with the result that no more loaded.
Then some players started to use 'mules' to store them on, (alts that they only logged in and out to place extra equipment on), thereby avoiding the maxload restriction.
So suddenly, instead of the intended max 5 of a certain artifact, there could be 25, of which Player A had 15 and player B 7. Another example of how a few individuals can ruin the fun for the many...
Also the artifact code was a bit buggy, which didn't help things.

Those were the reasons for changes like timers and artis bonding to the finder.
Both of which I agree were not very good solutions to the problems.

Artifacts were never 'nerfed' however. What happened was that as the world grew, every builder wanted something 'special' in their own zone, and other equipment escalated. So, in comparison, the artifacts became less desireable.
And since by then the staff had realised the other problems with the existing artifacts, very few new ones were made.

In conclusion, I have to agree with Once.
Come up with a new system for artifacts that is fun and interesting and challenging and cannot be abused too much.

I agree that no equipment shouldn't suddenly go poof in the middle of a fight.
I also agree that most items, including artifacts, should be sellable, to support a player driven economy.
I also like the suggestion to restrict how many artifact each player is allowed to wear at the same time.
I also think that artifacts could be a bit extra good, as long as it doesn't unbalance things.
I wouldn't mind a global message announcing that 'An artifact has loaded', provided it doesn't specify which one.

But apart from that I really haven't seen any ideas yet that are good enough to make me want to put any work into the artifact system.

[Molly]

Here is one thought however, that possibly could be developed into something:

Base the artifact system on how Excalibur loads.
The sword is set as !rent, so you cannot log out with it, !melt-on-drop and no put in houses or containers.
As long as ONE Excalibur is in the game, no more will load in the stone in Camelot. But as soon as the player with the sword logs out, it loads again at next reset and there will be a chance for others to get it from the stone.

Translated into artifacts, it would mean that there could be 25 different artifacts in the game at the same time, but only one of each kind.
And no player would be allowed to wear more than 3 at the same time.
They  could carry more of course. But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).

[Jason Orsini]

ew 

[horus]

I think everyone forgot about one MAJOR MAJOR fact - artifacts are rare drops. There is a very low percentage that an artifact will load, and I only increase this chance when I constantly go back to the mob and kill it over and over and over again for several weeks. They are in essence harder to get than quest items.

If I DT now, I can get all my quest items in no time. But it will take me weeks on end to get all my artis back. Timers and max_loads were stop gap solutions on an old problem, neither of which are relevant now. There is absolutely no point in having timers and max_loads - it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

Like I said, artis are ALREADY much more difficult to get than a quest item. If you had prior knowledge to a quest, you can get it easily. If you had prior knowledge of where the arti loads, it will take you much longer to get. If you had absolutely no knowledge of a quest item, again, you would be able to go through a quest and when completed, earn your quest item. However, running through an area, you would easily miss an arti if it didnt load because most zones discourage you killing mobs when you are questing.

So in ALL CASES, artis already hold a special place. You just forget and think oh look at all these players running around with artis, but you are talking about an extremely elite few players that have it and you cannot set rules just for them and ruin it for the rest.

[Molly]

Well, artifacts may be rare drops, but that's a bit of the idea behind them. Even the name 'artifact' indicates that they should be rare and hard to get, and I really see no reason to change that principle.

And however seldom they load, that doesn't change the fact that some players seem to collect them like stamps.
So some restrictions will be necessay, if we want them to be better than normal items.

Once has an idea about how to handle artifacts, which I rather like, so I think we'll go with that.

[Once]

From the Detector helpfile which will be in next reboot (Note we may tweak the values for the detector as time goes on and change it when the full artifact system comes in):


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DETECTOR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Usage:    detector high
             detector low
Duration: Infinite
*
The Detector system allows a player to increase the power of their
time distortion detector which analyzes ripples in the timeline
for the materialization of legendary artifacts.
*
Setting the Detector to "High" will drain 15 Tradepoints every
time the detector detects an artifact. Currently having the detector
at a low setting will not charge anything and will indicate the
dimension of the rift.
*
To see what your current Detector level is type worth.
*
See also: TRADEPOINTS
*
Special Thanks: Jaros for ideas and testing.

[Jaros]

Input on pricing would be good.  I personally think 15 TP to know the zone of the arti that just loaded is nothing.

I would also like to see the basic level divided into low and medium, where low is free and just detects a ripple as artifacts load and nothing else, and medium costs something small but gives you the dimension.  Then the high setting would be much more expensive and give you the actual zone.

I think this will really come into its own with the possibility of artifacts that load on random mobs and in random locations, somewhere new each time.

Cheers Once 

Full artifact revamp on its way, as he said.

[Kvetch]

But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).

So... if I never log out - like a lot of the players do - then I never lose my arti until the the system copyovers or reboots.  I'm just saying...

[Jaros]

But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).

So... if I never log out - like a lot of the players do - then I never lose my arti until the the system copyovers or reboots.  I'm just saying...

They're not going to work like that  .  More like as long as you're actually using your artifacts you're fine and don't have to worry about anything, but if you want to hoard artifacts and not use them, well mam, we may have a problem there.

[Virisin]

I agree, 15 tradepoints is 2 jars from punt. We can gather 100-200 in 5 minutes through a levelling run. Low-medium-high cost should be more like 10-100-1000

[Virisin]

Also randomload artifacts all over the dimensions would be great with this.

[Once]

I agree, 15 tradepoints is 2 jars from punt. We can gather 100-200 in 5 minutes through a levelling run. Low-medium-high cost should be more like 10-100-1000

Can you also post that in this thread:

http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,708.msg4601.html#new

I'd like to keep criticisms to new features in a centralized place so after the dust settles I can go back in and revise as needed. If it's strewn about threads like this it might end up missed when I'm in the mood to code.

[Virisin]

I like the idea of random-load chests that have those old GOD_ITEMS in them that had mini-timers and like 50 damroll. Then you have the occasional chest that loads an artifact which is untimered, potentially has an innate (if innates were removed from normal eq to make it a real bonus) and slightly better stats but the magicalness means you can only wear 2. These chests could load something like 1% of the time on mobs, and an artifact could load 20% of the time in the chest.

[horus]

My point is, artis are already rare loads, so there is already a distinction between an arti and a quest item. As I stated, its already harder to get an arti - if you are saying that people are collecting them like stamps, there are only a few players that have them, and you could use the same exact arguments about quest items.

And final point, there is NO arti that has better stats than quest items.