A newbs life in school, quest academy and after.

[Kvetch]

They will probably need something telling them how to 'wear bandana ON neck.'

Yeah, I was going to put that in the look description, but once I got back from what I was doing the mud was lagging so much it kept crashing me out.  So, I wasn't able to continue the work I was doing.

[Calypso]

The checklist that was discussed could be put in a helpfile rather than yet another pamphlet/booklet/leaflet for the newbie to keep up with. They way they always have it with them, and the get used to reading help files. It could be called something like What Now?

[Tor]

Yeah, a help file sounds like the way to go, to me... and something to reinforce that there are help files available for use. I'm pretty sure the help files are mentioned somewhere in the school, but some of the new players don't seem to pick up on it.

[Molly]

Except that...
If we make it a book or a checklist object, we could put a script on that, to show what parts of the things on the list that they had done or not done, when typing 'Check list' or something like that.
The script could be based on what questflags they have.

I remember someone asking for a feature like that before.
It would be a bit over the top to have a script check for every one of our 200 quests, but a script to handle about 20 flags for the newbie tasks should be quite possible to make.

[Tor]

Ah... an actual functioning check list, that would justify carrying the additional item. Would they be able to replace it, if it were somehow lost? Jaros's idea of having a mob handle the check list would also work, but I like the idea of letting them have it with them. Maybe the check list could be given to them by the mob?

[Calypso]

What if we constructed a quest log for each player? That way, olbie or newbie, each player could see what quests they have completed, which ones they are in the middle of, and what percentage of the way through it, they are. Not to mention a little bit of info on each quest to help them remember what it is they are doing. I have seen this on other muds and it is amazing!! I love that feature.

[Once]

It's a good idea Loria. It would just mean setting it up with every quest in the game. A very time consuming endeavor that involves knowing what part of the script is the "completed quest". A time consuming endeavor but a good idea still.

[Molly]

Yeah, I too like the idea.

Except that we have over 200 different quests in the game, many of which are extremely complex. Usually they are run by several different scripts, each setting a questflag to define how far a player has proceeded in the quest. So for one of our 10-step quests -and we have several of those -  we'd need to check ten different flags, not just one. Not to mention that in some of the scripts the quest flag is set by a mob, in others by an object or a room, so basically we'd have to go through every script in every zone to make sure. 

Plus that over the years we've had many different builders, and each builder has their own individual style of scripting, which is not immediately clear to someone else, when checking the scripts. Personally I usually make notes of everything in my zones, but even so I don't recall by now how many of my own quests are set to work. And figuring it out when some other builder did the job is ten times as hard.

In short, I don't think anyone has the time, energy and motivation to carry out such a project. I certainly would never under any circumstances try it myself - (and I would probably be the most suitable person for the task too. It would mean a lot more job for anybody else, since most of the quest scripts are mine).

So however good the idea is, it just isn't feasible. Like many other good ideas it is hampered by the sheer size and age of the mud. A feature like this should have been coded in from the start, then it might have been possible. But since code wasn't our strongest side in the past, we had to resort to scripts, and 10 years and 150 zones later it just means way too much work. It's like turning an ocean steamer around by using a paddle.

I'm not prepared to take on that task, and I doubt that anyone else is either.

[Kvetch]

I've actually grabbed a lot of the variables off the people that do the most adventuring/quests so I probably have a good list.  And the majority of finding the script that does it can be done via tsearch.  I had started this myself back whenever, but it sounded like even though it was a good plan no-one really thought it was viable.  Then Lionheart said something about it should be easy and I just shrugged it away.  One thing I did like though was Mord's journal where people could write their own things in the pages.  The only problem I had with it (yes, I do have an object for the script on build port) was that it interferred with my client at the time.  I had to keep disconnecting to get out of the journal and of course it didn't save then.  Once we figured out the problem and I shut off the interference it worked great.  But I'd hate to hand something out that some people get fed up over because it interfers with the clients they use. Maybe that could be looked into closer for a step up from nothing for the time being.

[Bane]

@Molly

1. Changes casters starting item to an about item, Could call it {cb Mystical {cx cloak. Give it the same stat as the glasses make it an about.

Agreed and already done. Same vnum, different item.

Awesome

2. Start them all out with the standard issue vest, waterskin, note that is found in the backpack on the ground before lionel

Agreed, except for the part that would demand coding.
I propose that we instead reset the waterskin and vest in the chest at Lionel.

Something with the waterskin that bugs me is they are not shown about hunger till they enter the school and it doesnt even apply to them till what level 10 or 20?

Should we even keep the waterskin?

3. Remove the travelers backpack before Lionel

Agreed. Move some of the content to Lionel's chest.

Awesome

4. Remove the about item found in Lionel box.

Agreed.
So Lionel's chest should contain:
- a pair of deer skin trousers
- a pair of deer skin moccasins
- a sub issue vest (new)
- a lantern (new)
- a waterskin (new)

- remove the bearskin from reset

Great! But refer to Number 2

5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item
or start them out with an item to manifest.

Agreed.
I too prefer the second option.
So, Lionel gives them a weapon and walks them through the manifest. (Script needs changing)

Good

5. Remove the flint and moccasins found in prehistoric area.

Agreed.
And why not put something else that is useful there instead?
Suggestions?

Maybe something for arms or gloves? Maybe beer skin gloves considering theres a bear in the area?

6. Remove the sword from the squire and change his description in the medieval area

The idea with the squire was that Fighters and Rogues might like different weapons.

So, maybe make the sword a bit better and the squire a bit stronger (8d9 damage, to match the dagger)?
Or make a small quest for the squire instead, where he asks you to fetch something somewhere else in the castle, and in return gives you a better sword? (I prefer the second choice).
He should also tell you to talk to the cook and say that she has a better weapon if you are a rogue. (Script needs changing).

I agree with the second choice, I would say make it class dependent.

Squire gives a quest for fighters, cook gives one for rogues and Gandalf gives one for mages.

If you are the wrong class have them point you to who to see. The sign where the cook would need to be changed because it says to talk to the cook for a quest. Could maybe move the sign to the squire. Make it some kind of board with flyers up with people who could use a spare hand.

7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)

Agreed. So:
- Add an earring, found somewhere in the maze. Perhaps in the grass, (visible container)?(new)
- Keep the spectacles

Make it in a visible container when they find their way out.

8. Move green banana to a neck slot so it doesn't interfere with the face mask slot.

Agreed.
- Change the bandana to neck
– or maybe make it a double wear_loc item, for those that may have missed the mask?

Agreed

9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit.

Perhaps give two other choice for the Olive branch, one for each class type?
Suggestions?  

Something else I noticed with casters recieving the olive branch is that they are forced to put a timer on their reward. And the timer expired i think around 4-5 days for me.

So Id say lets remove the olive branch as a whole, and replace it with 3 weapons, one for each class but make it have the same scripts the  branch had.

Let fighters get either an axe or a mace, lets start to go ahead and veer away a little with always using swords.
10d/10d
2 str
25 max hit

Rogues
Dagger or I was thinking more of something along the lines of sometype of gloves with claws?
2dex
5hitroll

Casters
Lets give them a staff, have it give the same ulti as a reg staff you can woodsing. Give it a decent timer(or can this be removed, Or can it change into another object and you can have one of the caster trainers embue magic back into it to put its timer back on it?)

2 int
4 cha

Stats dont have to be what I suggested but i figured somewhere along the lines of stats would be useful for damage.

10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.

I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).

Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).

How about we change the remote you get off the captain into an item that you can use to identify.

Call it a tricorder for anyone that never watched star trek

In Star Trek, “tricorders” are handheld devices used for sensor scanning, data analysis and recording data. Or maybe move it to the diploma.

11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.

Agreed. I'm all for this.
- Remove all exits down  except the first one.
- Add some info about Recall command and Feather in the rooms between each Dimension

12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?

- Remove the Newbie donation pit. (It probably doesn't work anyhow).

One thing about this is the quest for the tradepoints will need to be moved. Honestly he didnt feel right there to me, to me he does feel like he was thrown in. I will have to think about maybe where to move him to.

I assume that the general plan would be to have all wear_loc slots filled after they leave Mudschool and the Newbie Areas, including the Arena.
Not necessarily first class objects, but something good enough to start them out.

Ill explain further shortly

[Bane]

Btw the rest will be up tommorrow night PROMISE. Was a pretty busy week but i cant complain.

Got hired into my company

Became an uncle

and bought a new car

I know im bad with giving exact due dates sorry

[Bane]

Since I cant edit my posts I had to post this here.

But after leaving the quest academy a newbie I feel needs more direction. One thing I think we need to remove is having to hand in the vouchers to helpers. I know that basically all a helper is kinda good for, but their might not always be a helper on. And personally I think at looking at the who list there is way too many people with way to many tags. I personally would like to see helper removed, and have the existing helpers apply for hero. But that's getting off topic I think.

 I think a machine or a npc should be placed to accept the vouchers and reward them with a weapon based on their class. I laid out some weapons in my previous post before this with some stats that I thought would be fitting. I think gordy would be the best npc to turn in the vouchers too. They could go turn in the vouchers and he could then point them towards the newbie zones again because nothing else is said about going back to him to check out the newbie zones if you are able to completely go through the school and quest academy. You just get thrown into recall room and nothing said about going back to him. If you want to keep helpers to receive the vouchers then when they leave the quest academy they should be taken back to Gordy and have him emphasize on them going to the newbie areas, especially if this is your first time on 4d.

Now, something else I did not like is that when you go to venture way its easy to miss or walk by the easy newbie zones(preparation room) I never knew about them when I first started and I had walked right pass them and ended up playing on the game grid. The road guard only talks about their being 4 zones on venture way and in reality their is 8. So I personally think preparation room should be moved off venture way, as not to confuse them more. They can check out the easy newbie zones then move onto the zones in adventure avenue. Or make it so you need to walk through the preparation room before you can continue onto venture way. Should be an easy fix.


Now lets get into the preparation room. There are 4 zones here. One for each dimension. I like how the portals work here. You must climb, mount, enter, and jump to enter the portals here. So lets go ahead and descend the vine and enter the first zone. You get thrown into the prehistoric area.

You got a fairly simply quest here help someone find a weapon to defeat the dinosaur. Now your reward for this is 5000 measly gold coins, and 1000 if you repeat it. With the way the gold system is here this is completely useless and a waste of time imo. If we ever got our gold problem fixed(someday I hope we do) then this wouldn't be such a large problem but this really doesn't allow them buy much. Maybe a few scrolls of identify or a few potions? I say we up the amount you receive to 25,000- 50,000.

Now when you leave here you have to find a hole, entering the hole takes you back to recall(why?) This hole should take you back to the preparation room. Its silly to have to walk back to the guard then gordy etc. All the exits from all 4 zones here take you back to the recall area. They all need to be changed

Lets go ahead and go to the next zone there. Which is entering the portal and ending up in the medieval zone.

I personally like this zone, there's a lot of equipment here you can get and I like the fact you have to gather the items to receive them. Now the only thing I really didn't like is that you receive an ankle item here. Which is a unique spot and the other classes who do not have any ankles slots are left out on a piece of equipment. I think an easy fix would just to be to remove the ankle item as a hole. As far as the rest of the items go seems to be a decent balance of all stats here.

Next zone we mount up and enter the old west zone. Its a decent zone. You can earn a little bit cash in exchange for horse shoes, you get a decent earring here and you can also get some food. I think the cash you get for turning in the horse shoe needs to be upped. I think its 1000, Now as it is a repeatable quest I dont think it should be to high maybe 3000-5000(but im not sure though_? Food is kinda useless because I doubt they are high enough to even feel hunger yet. Idk if maybe you could make it so they receive some kind of buff off eating the food? Armor or bless? A script would have to be made becase I would hate to see if turned into a potion and you have to quaff some bread.. But if it made it easier we could do that.

Last but not least lets jump the gate and enter the future area. This zone is basically set up for melee classes for rewards. You get a 10d10 weapon( dont have stats manifested it ) and a White beret

a White Beret is a type of armor made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE HEAD
It is undonateable unsellable
Its weight is 3 and its valued at 100 coins.
If worn it will give you --
     1 to your Hitroll
     1 to your Damroll
     1 to your Constitution

AC-apply is 2

Now if i remember right we have to wear the beret to equip the weapon, Idk if I really like that idea. I mean you have to have the white beret for the quest but you also have to have it to use the weapon for the reward, but if you manifest it into a orb you dont. So i think we need to just remove the restriction of having to wear the hat to use the weapon. I do like the quest here, its not so easy for a newbie but if they can figure it out it will help them figure out quests better in the long run because of how its set up. You have to talk to npcs before you can find everything you need and also you have to wear certain equipment to finish it. So I really like this quest even if it is a tad hard.

Im trying to think of a way to balance the quest reward out for both classes but I cant. And maybe its time for them to realize that not every quest is gonna help you they way you need it. But maybe we can throw in a token as a reward.

So im going to go ahead and recap

1. Do we want to keep the way we turn in vouchers the same or should we move them to a npc like Gordy?

2. After finish the quest academy re-point the newbies back to Gordy or have them start back at Gordy to finish up the newbie areas before exploring 4d.

3. Remove the preparation room from venture way, or make it so you have to walk through the preparation room to enter venture way so they do not miss this area as its helpful.

4. Change the reward in the prehistoric area. 5000 gold isint all that much up to around 25,000?


5. Remove the anklet item(wool socks) from the medieval area because its a unique slot and not available to all.( I have an idea to help newbie get their unique spots filled later on)

6. In the old west area, the food quest is more less useless to them because I highly doubt they will be high enough to even feel hunger yet. Add a affect to the food item so you receive armor or bless? Or turn it into a potion if its easier then making a script for it. Also do we want to up the gold received for turning in horseshoes since or economy is in such bad shape.

7. Remove the flags for having to wear the white beret to wield the blaster and also add a token as a reward for the quest considering its not exactly an easy quest.

8. Change the exits from all the zones to take you back to the preparation room instead or recall.


Sorry it took so long. Im back to being active again. more to come.

[Bane]

Also something I wanted to add in from my previous post

9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit.

Perhaps give two other choice for the Olive branch, one for each class type?
Suggestions?  



Something else I noticed with casters recieving the olive branch is that they are forced to put a timer on their reward. And the timer expired i think around 4-5 days for me.

So Id say lets remove the olive branch as a whole, and replace it with 3 weapons, one for each class but make it have the same scripts the  branch had.

Let fighters get either an axe or a mace, lets start to go ahead and veer away a little with always using swords.
10d/10d
2 str
25 max hit

Rogues
Dagger or I was thinking more of something along the lines of sometype of gloves with claws?
2dex
5hitroll

Casters
Lets give them a staff, have it give the same ulti as a reg staff you can woodsing. Give it a decent timer(or can this be removed, Or can it change into another object and you can have one of the caster trainers embue magic back into it to put its timer back on it?)

2 int
4 cha

Stats dont have to be what I suggested but i figured somewhere along the lines of stats would be useful for damage.

Make sure that they work the same way as the olive branch does, where you can only wear it till x level.

[Bane]

I've actually grabbed a lot of the variables off the people that do the most adventuring/quests so I probably have a good list.  And the majority of finding the script that does it can be done via tsearch.  I had started this myself back whenever, but it sounded like even though it was a good plan no-one really thought it was viable.  Then Lionheart said something about it should be easy and I just shrugged it away.  One thing I did like though was Mord's journal where people could write their own things in the pages.  The only problem I had with it (yes, I do have an object for the script on build port) was that it interferred with my client at the time.  I had to keep disconnecting to get out of the journal and of course it didn't save then.  Once we figured out the problem and I shut off the interference it worked great.  But I'd hate to hand something out that some people get fed up over because it interfers with the clients they use. Maybe that could be looked into closer for a step up from nothing for the time being.

I actually think this idea would be the best approach. Of course we would have to show the newbies how to use it but, I think it would be helpful to everyone. Im not sure of how you have it set up, but it would be neat to see it set up like the recall board. You can write a title for it then have the note to follow.

[Bane]

@ xeriuth

5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item or start them out with an item to manifest.

I agree with this; however we will have to have the newbies gain at least 1 level by now so they have practice pointes to train manifest in order to actually manifest the item. So they’ll have to be taught training, practice command, score command (if not already learned), skilllist class command, and spell info command. The last two can be taught at a later time but those first few are definitely important early on.  The whole teaching aspect of this is what a lot of my idea of how the school should work revolves around. But I’ll get into that later.

Newbies start out with practice points when they log in. And you are able to practice your first skills with lionel.

7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)

I too agree there should definitely be a reward for the maze, I think it is interesting that the maze is there, and they aren’t really taught about how to properly solve mazes until the quest academy. I think a little teaching should be involved and the quest academy maze later on should be a little bit more difficult. I think this maze is harder than the quest academy as is. I’m not certain what old west earring you are referring to, but I believe one of the newbie arena zones, there is a sonic amplifier or something similar that is an ear item. But in any case we do need another, perhaps relocate the old gypsy ear item to the maze?

Its a earing of animal hearing you have to wear it to hear the animals talk in the medieval zone. I was wrong on the area. But yes I do remember there use to be items for each class, im sure they are still around. But instead of moving those items to the newbie area i was thinking they could be rewards for your class when you start doing the tasks after the newbie area. Maybe have the stats increased a little.

10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).

Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).

I agree with both Bane and Molly on this. I believe I have a solution to it as well. Regardless of the item it is that allows them to identify, they have to receive the item fairly early on. At least get it right before the bandana choosing, or maybe even at the same time as it. They of course have to be taught how to use it, I’d recommend it being identical to a scroll of knowledge/identify, perhaps a scroll that replenishes in your inventory after you use it. With the fair warning of after their first remort they will use it any longer, and perhaps make it poof if they try to. This is something that I should be able to script fairly easily.

As for the grenades Molly mentioned, removal would probably be best for now to avoid confusion, and if and when code is fixed, then can add grenades back in.

You can read my previous thread towards molly on my idea on this, but I do agree with one thing it would be nicer to have early on. So its definitely  something that needs to be discussed on where and when we receive this item. But then again I do like my idea of making a tricorder for killing the captain in the future area. Because I think his reward is lame.


As for the rest of your post Ill have to get back with you on it. I do like some of your ideas But i dont want to see all their levels handed to them for finding stuff. They will eventually have to grind for some levels in the future so I want to make sure they still have to work for some levels. But i was talking to Once about this we can get them a double exp potion to help them gain these levels also. He said it would be an easy to put in, we just want to make sure its not able to be abused or given away.

I also want to steer away from pointing them towards too many quests. I want to keep to items that are not quest rewards. I want to direct them towards a few here and there but not many.

 With so many things we could have them find we could maybe reach out past the tier 1 and move on to helping them getting their whole first class done. But we will discuss more of this later. I have to get ready for work.