A newbs life in school, quest academy and after.

[Kvetch]

Just want to point out that I too missed the newbie zones after mud school the first time around.  In fact, I'm not even sure when I found out about them, could have been when I was becoming a Helper.   After the mudschool it was like you're dropped in recall where it says "If you are level 15 or higher go up to see the guardian to be transported to the higher level areas".  I like the thought of being dropped back off at Gordy or somewhere else other than recall.  And I also agree that when you're done with each zone you should be sent back to where the portals are instead of recall.  If it was their last venture way zone they can just type recall (I believe the newbies get it for free up to level 40 or so??) to get to recall.

The Journal:
I'll post the script on the scripting board for everyone to look at, but basically, if there was a way to change the commands so they worked exactly like the board, I would think it would help, but I"m not sure what would happened if you tried to write in your journal in a room that had a board in it - which may be why some commands are different.  I seem to remember the command to end and get out of the journal was ;s and that was what messed up my client at the time.  Something about parsing.  I still don't know what it means.  *heh*

[Bane]

Just want to point out that I too missed the newbie zones after mud school the first time around.  In fact, I'm not even sure when I found out about them, could have been when I was becoming a Helper.   After the mudschool it was like you're dropped in recall where it says "If you are level 15 or higher go up to see the guardian to be transported to the higher level areas".  I like the thought of being dropped back off at Gordy or somewhere else other than recall.  And I also agree that when you're done with each zone you should be sent back to where the portals are instead of recall.  If it was their last venture way zone they can just type recall (I believe the newbies get it for free up to level 40 or so??) to get to recall.

The Journal:
I'll post the script on the scripting board for everyone to look at, but basically, if there was a way to change the commands so they worked exactly like the board, I would think it would help, but I"m not sure what would happened if you tried to write in your journal in a room that had a board in it - which may be why some commands are different.  I seem to remember the command to end and get out of the journal was ;s and that was what messed up my client at the time.  Something about parsing.  I still don't know what it means.  *heh*

Seems like to me the ; would interfere cause its already a command in game to do multiple actions in one line.

[Kvetch]

It worked fine when I used it on the build port - of course I have a different client now, but the ; to do multiple actions at once doesn't seem to be interfered.

[Molly]

I'm sorry, but I don't really see the need for a journal to write on in game.

It would be as lo easier to just open a notepad dokument on the computer, and put all the info they want on that. They could name it 'journal' or '4D' or whatever, and keep it open on the desktop while mudding, so they can write down things they want to remember there. Then it won't get lost, like a scrap of paper would.

It's what I've always been doing myself while building, I write down all the details about a zone, to make sure that the different parts are consistant and complete.

It's a lot easier to write something down in notepad, than taking notes in the game.
So I think that's the advise we should give to the newbies.

Many clients also offer the option of opening a notepad window beside the game window, for instance KaVir's client app (which we are planning to let the players download from our website) has that option.

[Bane]

I like the journal just for the fact I dont have to worry about losing the notes or not being on the computer the notes are stored on.

I know some people take long breaks, I just think it would be nice to have the option of being able to have all your notes saved on the server side so you dont ever have to worry about losing it. I just really dislike having to have multiple different programs, then having to swap between screens when it cou


 If we dont want to offer it to newbies ok, I feel like it should be a players choice. If its not something thats all that hard to input then I think we should. I would potentially use it myself as im not always on the same computer


Side nite Ill be starting a new thread that keeps track of the changes and stuff and will leave this thread up for just holding the discussions,

[Virisin]

A journal if it contained quest information generated via scripts would be amazing. A journal just to write on as a notepad ingame is a silly idea.

[Molly]

I just think it would be nice to have the option of being able to have all your notes saved on the server side so you dont ever have to worry about losing it. I just really dislike having to have multiple different programs, then having to swap between screens

Hmm,  I don't even know if this is possible, so I am passing the question on to whoever might know, (which probably means Thotter or Mordecai):
Would it be possible to store individual notepad journals made by the players on our server, so that they they can access them from any computer?
I know it can be done on a Mud client, but the client wouldn't be available if they wanted to play from an extra laptop or i-phone.

Apart from that, I still think that it would be a lot easier to use a separate window for making notes, instead of being constantly disturbed and spammed out of the screen in the game window. Easier to write too, no need to use funky commands like /s, /r 'whatever' 'whichever' etc.

A journal if it contained quest information generated via scripts would be amazing. A journal just to write on as a notepad ingame is a silly idea.

I might be willing to work on a scripted Quest journal along the lines I sketched in my post on the other thread;
http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,682.msg5049.html#msg5049
provided that someone else helps out, in particular with the quests in zones that I didn't build,  (and I guess that means Kvetch or Diandra, since I don't really imagine anyone else would volunteer).

Setting up the all the scripts for that journal involves a shitload of work, and I am not just motivated to sift through scripts made by others to figure out how the quest flags on those are set.
In any case this would be a long time job, so don't get your hopes up too much.
I'm still not convinced that it would be worth the effort.

Except possibly for the last part, which would enable a player to erase their own flags, to start a quest from the beginning again, if it got messed up. A script like that would only be necessary for the multistep quests, meaning a limited number.

[Calypso]

Except possibly for the last part, which would enable a player to erase their own flags, to start a quest from the beginning again, if it got messed up. A script like that would only be necessary for the multistep quests, meaning a limited number.

oh that would be SO awesome!!!

[Once]

There's two separate requests here that we need to whittle down to one.

1) A notepad where people can write notes which may or may not include quests. Possibly themed as a quest notebook.

2) A quest journal that automatically logs quest information for players and can be accessed offline.



Point 1 is piss easy to write. It'd just basically be a clone of something like player descriptions, with multiple pages. That or it could be handled as a new interface to the notes system with persistent notes that don't delete themselves.


Point 2 is more difficult. The easiest way is to basically have journal notes based on quest flags. So when you get the "accepted_baron_quest" flag or whatever it may be we show hints/journal entries that are linked to that quest flag in a "journal". What we'd need to do there is have a list of all quest flags, and then we'd need someone to write descriptions/journal entries for all of them.

I'd recommend for point 2 that we start with the newbie zones and zones that newbies would be in. It could probably be achieved pretty easily that way. This one is one that we can't overthink though or it'll just be too massive to get off the ground.

[Calypso]

Posting my thoughts about keeping newbie interest up, as requested:

- Navigation is an issue for newbies. Knowing which quests to go on next, which ones are important for progress (such as robber baron for the wand)... these are good things for a newbie to know.'

- There is a room in venture way that tells them where to start and even how to get there, transporting them to certain newbie areas, which is great. problem is, we kick newbies out of the newbie areas too early and as far as I can tell, that one little transport area in venture way is weirdly located.'

-The 5th voucher always gives newbies trouble. Perhaps we can have Apollo tell them what Helpers normally tell them about the 5th voucher "don't forget to use all of your senses". And there is the issue of the olive branch sucking as a reward. This was discussed before. Those who are new to mudding might have no idea what to do with it.

- Is there a section in the newbie area that explains which things to wear and which to wield or hold? Or even how to check what each eq is (id scroll)? That could begin to teach newbies about the worth differences between different pieces.

- More practice sessions. In my opinion, there aren't enough. I personally feel as though newbs should never be told they can't practice a skill because of practice points.'


-There could be a pamphlet or board or help info to tell them a list of things to do in what order, perhaps some good tips about which quests are good for newbie eq after school/academy'

 - There seems to be a newbie arti, which I love! It seems pretty powerful, in terms of newbie eq. I don't know if this is old news and I am just finding out about it or if it is new. That gives them a chance to familiarize themselves with the concept of artis and timers.

[Kvetch]

- There is a room in venture way that tells them where to start and even how to get there, transporting them to certain newbie areas, which is great. problem is, we kick newbies out of the newbie areas too early and as far as I can tell, that one little transport area in venture way is weirdly located.'

This has already been fixed.  I moved it from north of venture way to on venture way.  You have to go through it to get to the other "newbie areas".

[Calypso]

Perhaps there could be a bulletin board put up in the newbie section so the Helpers and Imms could post helpful things to the newbs. I can see this being helpful to the newbs and it may make obsolete the need to have so many pamphlets and notes given to the newbs at the beginning of the game. We could just pint them to the board. It would be very easy to add to the board when new information comes up. Easier than, say, a newbie "What to do in what order" help file- which I would love to see happen if the newbie bulletin board isn't done.

[Diandra]

There's actually a board in the Seeker's guild where such info could be placed. Helper's don't have access to that board but the Seeker's leader can post things there.

And if I'm not mistaken there's already some posts there concerning the trainers and some leveling places for new players.

[Greg]

I mentioned this in another thread, so I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my number one recommendation for keeping newbies rather than having them flee in confusing is doing what all the successful MMORPGs I can think of are doing and allow the player to see exactly what a piece of equipment does just by looking at it.

Everyone likes powering up, but forcing people to hunt for changes in their Score sheet seems like a needless complication.  This is especially so given the wonderful variety of zones that there are to explore in 4D.

[On a much more minor note, I agree that the final helper voucher in Quest Academy is too hard to find.  The "smell" command is almost never used.  In fact, in most rooms where the room description specifically mentions odor, the "smell" command reports nothing unusual.  Also, I don't understand how it is possible to solve the first quest in the quest academy without saying "solution".  Is there some clue I am missing, for instance, regarding the fact that you should say "hail" in the prehistoric world?]

[Pix]

In the Medieval part of the 4D school, you would possibly have come across the greetings needed in all 4 dimensions.