4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Virisin on February 25, 2008, 12:45:18 am
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Here's the basic background: I'm working on distributing every skill and spell in the game to a mob, so we can in turn get rid of guild masters. They're overpaid and underworked.
Basically, I (and now you ;D) need to think up IC mobs that fit with whatever skill/spell WE give them, not only logically, but levelly. ;) Lower level skills need to be on easier to find mobs. The very low level skills/spells that are needed just as basics are staying with the normal normal guildmasters. We're just getting rid of that fat Mike next to recall.
So.. Enough chitter chatter.. Here's the current list I have, I want you all to help me with it.
Basic Trainers:
Lionel:
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-mount
-riding
-manifest
-chill touch
-kick
Thief Guildmaster:
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-backstab
-blackjack
Gypsy Guildmaster:
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-backstab
-blackjack
Ranger Guildmaster:
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-backstab
Warrior Guildmaster (Swordsmen Guildmaster needs a name change):
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-riding
-kick
Hunter Guildmaster:
-melee
-hand-to-hand
-riding
-kick
Mage Guildmaster:
-manifest
-chill touch
-colour spray
-magic missile
Esper Guildmaster:
-manifest
-chill touch
-cone of cold
-magic missile
Priest Guildmaster (Cleric Guildmaster needs a name change):
-manifest
-chill touch
-cone of cold
-magic missile
Skills:
- Advanced melee -
- Backstab –
- Bash -
- Behead –
- Berserk –
- Blackjack –
- Bladedance –
- Bow –
- Brace –
- Brew -
- Charge –
(Crete)
- Cleave –
- Crossbow -
- Disarm –
- Dodge –
- Drunk –
- Dual –
- Encircle -
- Face -
- Filet –
- Firearm -
- Flank –
- Focus –
- Forage –
- Fortify –
- Grapple –
- Grip –
- Hand-to-hand –
- Hide –
- Holystrength –
- Hyperactivity –
- Joust –
- Kick –
- Longarm –
- Manifest -
- Manipulate -
- Martial Arts –
- Master Melee –
- Melee -
- Meditate -
- Mount -
- Mounted Combat –
- Parry –
- Picklock –
- Phase –
- Poison Weapon –
- Push -
- Rescue –
- Retreat –
- Riding -
- Scan –
- Scribe -
- Scalp –
- Sling -
- Slip -
- Smash -
- Snare -
- Sneak –
- Short Blades –
- Strangle -
- Steal –
- Tame –
- Tinker -
- Throw -
- Track –
- Trample –
- Trap Aware -
- True Strike -
- Woodsing –
Spells:
- Absolve –
- Air Elemental –
- Acid Arrow -
- Animate Dead -
- Antidote -
- Armor -
- Battle rage –
- Bless -
- Blindness -
- Burning hands –
- Burning skull –
- Call Lightning -
- Chain Lightning -
- Charm -
- Chill Touch -
- Clone -
- Colour spray -
- Cone of Cold -
- Confuse -
- Control Weather -
- Corrupt armor –
- Create food -
- Create water -
- Cure blind -
- Cure critic -
- Cure light -
- Curse -
- Demonshriek -
- Detect alignment -
- Detect invisibility -
- Detect magic -
- Detect poison -
- Devine mind -
- Dispel evil –
- Dispel good –
- Dispel sanctuary -
- Earth elemental -
- Earthquake -
- Electric blast -
- Embue armor -
- Enchant weapon -
- Energy drain -
- Evil eye –
- Facemelt -
- Fireball –
- Fire elemental -
- Fire Shield -
- Flame Arrow –
- Flight -
- Forsee -
- Fortify body -
- Fortify mind -
- Gate -
- Group Armour -
- Group heal -
- Group recall -
- Group shield -
- Harm -
- Haste -
- Heal -
- Heart squeeze -
- Hold Person -
- Holy shield -
- Holyshout -
- Holyword -
- Ice shield -
- Inferno –
- Infravision –
- Invisibility -
- Knock -
- Lifesuck -
- Life transfer -
- Lightning bolt -
- Locate object -
- Magic bubble -
- Magic missile -
- Mana blast -
- Mana shield -
- Mana transfer -
- Meteor shower -
- Midas touch -
- Mind ice -
- Mind electricity -
- Mind fire –
- Mind water -
- Minor identify –
- Mirror shield -
- Nightmare -
- Numb mind -
- Paralyze -
- Polymorph -
- Poison –
- Protection from cold -
- Protection from evil –
- Protection from fire –
- Protection from good –
- Psi panic -
- Recharge -
- Remove alignment -
- Remove curse -
- Sanctuary –
- Senselife -
- Shield -
- Sleep -
- Slowness -
- Soulsmash -
- Static shield -
- Stoneskin -
- Shocking grasp -
- Steelskin -
- Strength –
- Suffocate -
- Summon -
- Sweet dreams -
- Teleport -
- Thornshield -
- Vitalize -
- Water elemental –
- Water to wine –
- Waterwalk -
- Weaken -
- Word of recall -
Your turn.. Fill in the gaps, or make suggesstions if you think more mobs should be added to a skill. I'll just edit the original post as I see fit.
Note: Done
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Here's my take.
Bash - Ruthless Thug, Behemoth
Encircle - Thief Grandmaster in Legend
Acid Arrow - Robin Hood
Armor - Mother Superior
Bless - Father Atheslane
Chill Touch - Gabrielle
Cone of Cold - Queen Adia
Create food - Travelling monks at Sherwood Forest
Create water -Travelling monks at Sherwood Forest
Cure critic - Friar Tuck
Cure light - Priest in Olde Yorke
Detect alignment - Priestess (Lower Egypt)
Detect magic - Merlin (Olde Yorke Magic Shop)
Energy drain - Vampire Priest
Fire elemental - Rahkz
Fire Shield - Fire Sprite in Odessin
Forsee - Gypsy Esmeralda, either
Harm - Priests in Temple of Rahkz
Heal - Any of the priests on Cos
Knock - Tomb Robber (any)
Lifesuck - Lord Mirkheim
Mind ice - Ice Queen (Bent Planet)
Nightmare - Drow Queen
Protection from fire - Bigfoot
Soul smash - Evil Magician (Rapunzel)
Word of recall - Zedd
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Ill post some in a minute, but going through the list you have to take into consideration that there are mobs that are aggro.
Jaih, the bouncers.
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Aggro mobs just make it funner. Lemme update my list to accomodate with the new suggestions
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Perhaps let the mobs not be aggro if they can learn that specific skill/spell?
Anyway, how about a mini quest for the tier 4 skills / spells before you can learn them?
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The lists look promising to me. This could probably be good, but means a lot of work to implement.
Having small quests to learn some of the most powerful skills/spells sounds like a good idea too.
One Question though, do you really mean that several different mobs should teach the same skill (apart from the basic ones, of course), or are those just alternate suggestions?
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Not sure what Virisin means for this, but I'd think that having several mobs teach the same skill would be good. IC wise, a generic mob in X zone (maybe a guard) would probably have the same skills as the same generic mob in Y zone. I'm seeing this as in "basic skills", "slightly more advanced skills" only. Of course, the more powerful skills/spells (or more useful) would be learnt from one mob / harder to find mobs / unique mobs.
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Yeah, I think the more IC mobs that know the same skill the better, and the more skills each of those mobs know the better aswel. I'd like every THIEF in the game to be able to teach blackjack say. And yeah, having mini quests for certain skills/spells is always fun. Much like subskills (which need a good revamp aswel).
Ideally, I'd like 5 trainer names beside each skill/spell..
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hmm..But surely the more useful skill/spells should have less trainers teaching it?
I mean, if there are two trainers, and one in a relatively easy zone (to navigate), I think most players would go for that one.
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I think more spells/skills should be made available at the basic trainers. thinking about it, I think if you have just have those few its going to be a big annoyance to any new player coming here and having to search all over the world when they are tier 1 level and only have a few levels under their belt to find a spell/skill to help them level. It just doesn't make since to take every skill and spell and spread them everywhere. you should still be able to get standard spells/skills for your class by your guildmaster. I mean IC point of view A guildmaster is strong and he only knows those skills and spells.. Seems redundant. Game still needs to be fun and not a pain in the ass.
If you make it so you cant kill the guards who guard the entrance to theses places you add spells and skills at the guildmaster there that only that class would be able to get and any other would have to search around for it. That way you could add a few decent spells skills at the trainers for a certain class only.
Remember when making this stuff finding these places are easy for you but a brand new player who doesnt know whats going on will have a harder time and will take fun out of the game\
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Yeah, I think the more IC mobs that know the same skill the better, and the more skills each of those mobs know the better aswel. I'd like every THIEF in the game to be able to teach blackjack say. And yeah, having mini quests for certain skills/spells is always fun. Much like subskills (which need a good revamp aswel).
Ideally, I'd like 5 trainer names beside each skill/spell..
The better skills such as Encircle Behead Magic Bubble Cleave Snare and snare like spells Trap Aware etc should not be that widely available but other things it should. I mean It be a pain in the ass if steal was put only on one mob and that mob was some mob that got killed all the time or was part of a quest and people would have to sit around and wait for a zone reset to train that skill from him.
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While I agree that finding spells/skills would be much more of a hassle compared to learning them from a single trainer, the 'basic' skills/spells would be easily found.
Eg, someone exploring Olde Yorke (and its surroundings) would find basic cleric spells, as well as kick.
I'm guessing that new players will probably head off to 'newbie' areas to level, and if the mobs in these 'newbie' areas teach these basic skills/spells, there shouldn't be much of a problem.
But if you've remorted, you should be by then able to explore and find these mobs.
After all, these makes the skills more valuable, and more of a challenge to the player.
I mean, think of it this way. If you play a game, and it's easy to get the best eq, best skills, I think you'll lose interest in it pretty fast. But if you manage to achieve something difficult without a walkthrough / help, you'll get a sense of accomplishment and renew your interest in it =)
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There is actually a code patch i can add, that lets builders select what they want a guildmaster to teach.
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gedit?
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There is actually a code patch i can add, that lets builders select what they want a guildmaster to teach.
Please go for it, Mord, that would make things a lot easier for everybody, seeing as there will be so many trainers to set up.
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Anymore input on this would be greatly appreciated.. I'll update the original post as I get more peoples lists.
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Here's some more.
Animate Dead - Ghost Traveller in Llano Estacado
Charm - Madam Lydia
Curse - Satanic Enchanter (Sanct. Haze)
Dispel Good - Dreadlord
Invisibility - Someone (Quixotica)
Teleport - Jaih :p
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There is actually a code patch i can add, that lets builders select what they want a guildmaster to teach.
Please go for it, Mord, that would make things a lot easier for everybody, seeing as there will be so many trainers to set up.
Okay, in MEDIT you have a new menu item called X)
Using that you can assign mobs skills that they will be able to teach people in the future.
Just the assigning part is functioning at the moment, since it was the most important.
The ability for people to train at these mobs will be in next.
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1) armor 2) teleport
3) bless 4) blindness 5) burning hands
6) call lightning 7) charm 8) chill touch
9) clone 10) colour spray 11) control weather
12) create food 13) create water 14) cure blind
15) cure critic 16) cure light 17) curse
18) detect alignment 19) detect invisibility 20) detect magic
21) detect poison 22) dispel evil 23) earthquake
24) enchant weapon 25) energy drain 26) fireball
27) harm 28) heal 29) invisibility
30) lightning bolt 31) locate object 32) magic missile
33) poison 34) protection from evil 35) remove curse
36) sanctuary 37) shocking grasp 38) sleep
39) strength 40) summon 41) suffocate
42) word of recall 43) antidote 1 44) sense life
45) animate dead 46) dispel good 47) group armor
48) group heal 49) group recall 50) infravision
51) waterwalk 52) gate 53) minor identify
54) remove alignment 55) locate person 56) poison 2
57) poison 3 58) poison 4 59) antidote 2
60) antidote 3 61) evil eye 62) absolve
63) chain lightning 64) recharge 65) meteor shower
66) stoneskin 67) steelskin 68) hold person
69) paralyze 70) holy word 71) holy shout
72) haste 73) shield 74) group shield
75) acid arrow 76) flame arrow 77) cone of cold
78) knock 79) protection from fire 80) protection from cold
81) earth elemental 82) water elemental 83) air elemental
84) fire elemental 85) fire shield 86) life transfer
87) mana transfer 88) protection from good 89) mind fire
90) mind electricity 91) mind water 92) mind ice
93) ice shield 94) thorn shield 95) mana shield
96) mirror shield 97) holy shield 98) static shield
99) fortify mind 100) fortify body 101) sweet dreams
102) devine mind 103) numb mind 104) slowness
105) flight 106) battle rage 107) embue armor
108) magic bubble 109) psi panic 110) nightmare
111) vitalize 112) dispel sanctuary 113) forsee
114) mana blast 115) confuse 116) corrupt armor
117) weaken 118) soulsmash 119) demonshreak
120) lifesuck 121) burning skull 122) heart squeeze
123) facemelt 124) electric blast 125) inferno
126) water to wine 127) midas touch 128) polymorph
131) backstab 132) bash 133) hide
134) kick 135) pick lock 136) flank
137) rescue 138) sneak 139) steal
140) track 141) mount 142) riding
143) tame 144) snare 145) throw
146) bow 147) sling 148) crossbow
149) dual 150) encircle 151) blackjack
152) advanced melee 153) firearm 154) push
155) scan 156) brew 157) scribe
158) tinker 159) poison weapon 160) retreat
161) filet 162) disarm 163) forage
164) trap aware 165) parry 166) mounted combat
167) trample 168) joust 169) grapple
170) drunk 171) hand-to-hand 172) melee
173) master melee 174) hamstring 175) short blade
176) dodge 177) phase 178) charge
179) grip 180) face 181) focus
182) martial arts 183) slip 184) manipulate
185) holy strength 186) berserk 187) meditate
188) woodsing 189) hyperactivity 190) true strike
191) strangle 192) fortify 193) manifest
194) scalp 195) brace 196) behead
197) bladedance 198) longarm 199) cleave
200) smash
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This code will be in today, as it has been written already, just not added to the game yet.
New command called: show trainers
This command allows builders to see which mobs have been set as trainers throughout the game, and what skills they have been assigned to teach.
Delete command is fixed since the earlier update i put through today, on OLC for removing skills/spells that trainers teach.
Incidentally, I fixed the issue where if you tried to delete a segmented mob's segments when it had none, you would get stick in the OLC screen and had to disconnect to get out.
Next:
The command practice will be updated, so that it scans through all of the mobs in the room you are in, then shows the mobs name and what they can train you in.
This will handle multiple mobs that can train in the same room as each other.
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I love you Mord. ;D This is perfect.
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Just updated the original post again. Keep posting in more lists, I want to get a full list of skills/spells + trainer mobs to start with.. And I'll go through it to make sure it seems fine afterwards.
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Although I basically love this concept, I have a couple of concerns. Basically I think the suggestion, as it stands now, is a bit too overwhelming, and that it would be better to limit the ambitions a bit.
I think that by dividing almost all skills and spells on various mobs, and even setting most on them on a lot of different mobs, you are not only making things a bit hard for the new players, you are also creating a lot of extra work for the Builders. I am not quite sure about who you think will be doing all this work, or how much time it will take to get it all implemented.
I'd like to see a more limited concept, where we concentrate the efforts on the skills/spells from tier 2 upwards.
Personally, I really think that the 'basic' Trainers, (the ones at Recall, Mud School and all the Clan Trainers) should teach all Tier 1 skills and spells, at least up to level 30, so as not to make it too hard on the Newbies.
Whereas the 8 Guildmasters (which are still easy to reach) should also teach Tier 1 skills and spells above level 30 in their respective class.
The rest of the skills/Spells (above Tier 1) should be divided on 'specialists', and the most powerful ones should also need a quest to practice.
This is my opinion, but I am still open to discussion, and if overruled, I'll bow to a majority.
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I gotta agree with molly. Think of the newbies.
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Currently there are only a handful of skills/spells that ever get used anyway, the very basic ones are on the basic guildmasters. I think the more scattered these skills/spells are, the better it will be to newbies to encourage them to explore. Even though they could get through all of tier 1 and probably 2 just with the skills found around the very, very central zones. I'll write a longer post this afternoon.. Peace.
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This is a nice idea because it turns skills into a commodity.
Skills can be gained at the end of quests and such.
And because skills get wiped as you remort, it will mean people will learn to use new skills that are not as hard to get.
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I also agree that newbies should be able to get the basic (tier 1) skills/spells easily.
Anyway there's one question I haven't seen answered yet so maybe Mord can since he made it:
Does this new piece of code look at the classrestrictions?
By this I mean for example woodsing, is this still limited for only Gypsies to learn or will every class be able to learn woodsing once they find the correct Guildmaster who's teaching the skill?
In other words, do the current classes keep their skilllist and will players only be able to learn the skills/spells on that list or will classes become redundant after these changes? Meaning anyone can learn anything as long as they find the right mob?
Just a question to clear up some confusing people might have.
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There will still definately be class restricions, this isn't turning us into a classless system. You will only be able to practice skills/spells that you CAN learn (ie, show up on your own 'prac skilllist') as long as you found the trainer to teach you.
As for newbies, there are a lot of tier 1 skills/spells that arn't at all neccessary to new players.. Scalp, Scan.. I could list dozens. I've chosen the skills/spells that new players will actually need to get by and given those skills/spells to the basic guildmasters. I think making the mud totally 'newbie friendly' isn't always the best thing, a lot of 'newbies' come from other muds and are looking for cool features in a mud, and if they don't realise that we do have quite a unique skills/spells system they might not be as impressed as they could be. The other tier 1 skills/spells that newbies might want will all be on mobs fairly close to recall, so surely there's nothing wrong with encouraging some exploring? We already expect them to make their way through the newbie zones and mud school..
I'm starting to just rant now so I'll stop.. But basically when I first drafted this idea, I had ALL tier 1 skills/spells on the basic trainers, then I realised that 50% or more of the skills/spells in the game are tier 1 skills/spells and it'd kinda make the whole system boring if they were all on the basic guildmasters. Especially since there ARE a lot of tier 1 skills/spells that are quite specialised..
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I feel the need to agree and disagree with everyone/anyone oh... and Virisin. ;)
We stress the fact that we're a quest heavy mud, and I see this as another "quest" type thing (find the guildmaster you need to teach you the skill you want). I also like being newbie friendly. My thought would be to have all skills up to (what level was said by Diandra?) 30? in the mudschool area, but only available to those that are seekers (which would require a fix of anyone being able to become a seeker). Those would be the true newbies. Personally, I'd like to see the mudschool/newbie area closed off to anyone that's remorted - but that's me. yeah, that'd mean you wouldn't be able to go back to get those flags if you didn't get them the first time through.
Having said that, I will admit that I'm not a quest heavy doer and having to track down a particular mob to get a particular skill would probably drive me nuts - unless there was a hint on where to find the mob (something more specific than "King Arthur in Medieval" ("King Arthur in Camelot" would work).
My disagreement with Virisin is how do you decide what is "necessary" and what isn't? Scan <direction> if you have it, is a very necessary skill on this mud when you're DT hunting.
Read, Respond, Tear apart at will. (poor will, he never did anything to us)
Kvetch
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My disagreement with Virisin is how do you decide what is "necessary" and what isn't? Scan <direction> if you have it, is a very necessary skill on this mud when you're DT hunting.
I decide. ;D And.. DT's are meant to be labelled with the word DEATH in the 'look <direction>' desc, if they arn't, you should typo report it.
Also, I think Molly and I decided that trainer mobs will have the different shade of cyan as their.. Long desc? Short desc? Whatever it is you see as you walk past them in the room, so you can tell them apart from other mobs.
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Sure... You and Molly makin' decisions without the rest of us now. I see how you all are. :P
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I also agree that newbies should be able to get the basic (tier 1) skills/spells easily.
Anyway there's one question I haven't seen answered yet so maybe Mord can since he made it:
Does this new piece of code look at the classrestrictions?
By this I mean for example woodsing, is this still limited for only Gypsies to learn or will every class be able to learn woodsing once they find the correct Guildmaster who's teaching the skill?
In other words, do the current classes keep their skilllist and will players only be able to learn the skills/spells on that list or will classes become redundant after these changes? Meaning anyone can learn anything as long as they find the right mob?
Just a question to clear up some confusing people might have.
No, the change only involves splitting where you get the skills for your class out.
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Okey, I still have some small issues with this, the main one being what skills and spells the 'generic' Guildmasters get. (I've discussed this with Viri a bit, and he's already moved the mount and riding skills in the main list of post1 to the Stable Masters and Racecourse trainer, and given the Spellcaster GMs some actual spells to teach). I still think that it would be nice if each of the spellcaster GMs had at least one class-specific spell to teach, however - (as it is they are all similar).
Generally I think the IC element of who teaches what should be given just as much weight as the tier/level of the skill/spell, not just for the 'Specialist' Trainers, but for the 'Generalists' as well.
The 2 most powerful skills/spells for each class should also need a quest to get.
Suggestions of which spells that are considered best by the players would be helpful here.
I also want the system to be presented already in Mud School. The Governess in Mediaval could explain the system (which would give her a purpose) and then Gondolf could teach manifest and the Newbie School Stable Master the riding skills, to give an early introduction to how the Specialist Trainers look.
I added some suggestions to the list, but several skills/spells are yetnot filled, so please those of you that know the realms well, get a bit creative here!
Time's running out fast, we want to toe this feature to a global RP event that we are planning for mid April, and there is a lot of work to be done.
One thing that might be really helpful, when we make the final decisions, would be a list that showed all the skills/spells/class info on the same sheet. As it is you have to clip back and forth between the Class skilllists to compare them.
I know this means a bit of work to set up, but it would be very useful for other things too, and a nice ting to have on the webpage.
So if anyone would like to contribute to the mud, please volunteer in this thread. :)
The heading would look like:
Skill name : Warrior Hunter Thief Ranger Gypsy Mage Priest Esper
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then each line in the list would look something like this :
chill touch - - - - - T1/L2 T1/L5 T2/L14
(or whatever tier/level each class gets the skill/spell at).
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How about something like this?
Tier 1 Skills/Spells
Skill/Spell name Level Warrior Hunter Thief Ranger Gypsy Mage Priest Esper
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'drunk' 0 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
'firearm' 0 Y Y Y Y Y
'backstab' 1 Y Y Y
'life transfer' 1 Y
'manifest' 1 Y Y Y
'melee' 1 Y Y Y Y Y
'chill touch' 2 Y Y Y
'kick' 2 Y Y Y
'mount' 2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
'protection from evil' 2 Y
'detect poison' 3 Y Y Y
'forsee' 3 Y Y
'infravision' 3 Y Y Y Y
'mirror shield' 3 Y Y
'riding' 3 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
'word of recall' 3 Y Y Y
'minor identify' 4 Y Y Y
'protection from fire' 4 Y Y Y
'steal' 4 Y Y Y
'cure blind' 5 Y Y
'cure light' 5 Y
'hand-to-hand' 5 Y Y Y Y Y
'blackjack' 7 Y Y
'shield' 7 Y Y
'bow' 8 Y Y
'hide' 8 Y Y Y
'confuse' 10 Y Y
'corrupt armor' 12 Y
'fortify body' 12 Y Y Y
'push' 12 Y Y
'sleep' 12 Y Y
'sling' 12 Y Y Y Y Y
'holy word' 13 Y
'filet' 14 Y Y Y Y
'brace' 15 Y Y
'detect invisibility' 15 Y Y Y
'mana shield' 15 Y
'colour spray' 20 Y
'crossbow' 20 Y Y Y Y Y
'magic missile' 20 Y Y Y
'static shield' 20 Y Y
'create food' 21 Y Y
'throw' 22 Y Y Y Y Y
'sweet dreams' 23 Y
'tame' 24 Y Y Y Y Y
'air elemental' 25 Y
'armor' 25 Y Y
'detect alignment' 25 Y Y
'strength' 25 Y Y
'dual' 27 Y Y Y Y Y
'rescue' 27 Y
'track' 27 Y Y Y Y
'create water' 28 Y Y
'forage' 28 Y Y Y Y
'absolve' 30 Y
'burning hands' 30 Y Y
'harm' 30 Y
'mana transfer' 30 Y Y Y
'scan' 31 Y Y Y
'shocking grasp' 31 Y Y
'sneak' 31 Y Y Y
'antidote 1' 34 Y Y
'cone of cold' 35 Y Y
'detect magic' 35 Y Y Y
'scribe' 39 Y Y Y
'battle rage' 40 Y
'fireball' 40 Y
'poison' 40 Y Y Y Y
'sense life' 41 Y Y Y
'recharge' 43 Y Y Y
'bash' 45 Y Y
'snare' 47 Y Y Y
'grip' 49 Y
'pick lock' 49 Y Y Y
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Here are some more spell locations
lightning bolt - High Priest of Zeus
locate object - archaelogists in old carthage (Could do any of the Old Carthage quests to get the spell..)
sense life - hunters in the stone age
The skills which I find extremely useful (as a GM), are locate object, encircle, scan, track, cure critic, and knock.
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How about something like this?
Thanks Erwin, thats definitely a good start.
Good trainer suggestions for the main list too.
Couple of questions: (I know, I should know this, but concentrating on building has made me lose track of the active game) :)
- Do all the Classes get the Tier 1 skills/spells at the same level?
- And what about the Tier 2, 3 and 4 skills/spells for each Class?
- Which of the skills/spells from other Classes do you keep as GM? (apart from the ones you keep from previous Class)
Heh, I'd probably want them rearranged in alphabetical order too, to facilitate search for a spefific skill/spell, but that's something for later.
I guess next step would be to replace the Y with T#/L# .
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Thanks Erwin, thats definitely a good start.
Good trainer suggestions for the main list too.
Couple of questions: (I know, I should know this, but concentrating on building has made me lose track of the active game) :)
- Do all the Classes get the Tier 1 skills/spells at the same level?
- And what about the Tier 2, 3 and 4 skills/spells for each Class?
- Which of the skills/spells from other Classes do you keep as GM? (apart from the ones you keep from previous Class)
Heh, I'd probably want them rearranged in alphabetical order too, to facilitate search for a spefific skill/spell, but that's something for later.
I guess next step would be to replace the Y with T#/L# .
Well, all classes get all the skills/spells at the same level and same tier. Eg, you learn sense life at T1L41, whether you are Priest, Hunter, or Gypsy.
I decided to do a sample of T1 spells/skills first, to check if that layout was okay, guess I modified it a bit since all the classes get the skills/spells at the same level, so just a Y if they do learn it.
All skills/spells up to T2L50 are kept as GM.
The skills/spells for T1 are sorted by level, then by alphabetical order.
I somehow feel that it would be better if there are 4 tables for each of the four tiers, preferably right after each other, so it would look like it's sorted from T1L1-T1L50-T2L1...-T4L50, instead of them being lumped together, as I think it's easier to see and compare.
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Has anyone ever used detect magic or detect poison? :-P
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They're spammy. :-X
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umm....not really.
I guess maybe that's because I have antidote spells, and the poisoned food so far can be cured using them, so I don't really use 'detect poison'.
As for detect magic, I don't use it because I have no clue what seperates a magical item from a non magical one, as far as I can tell, they're basically the same, except one is magical and the other is not.
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How about something like this? Can be sorted too..though I think it looks better without the colour.
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Has anyone ever used detect magic or detect poison? :-P
Then why don't we pull them out and maybe put in two new spells? :)
*gets a headache reading all of this*
Prometheus.
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As far as I know magic items cannot be tinkered, which would mean a valid reason to use detect_magic, before you destroy a perfectly good weapon.
(I'm not sure if this is still the case, of course, things tend to get changed without notice, and it's been long since I actively played. Perhaps some of you could check?)
Otherwise I agree with Prom; if a skill/spell is useless, it should be pulled out and replaced with something better, especially since we reached a cap with skills/spells.
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They are useful, don't remove them.
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Hmm..in terms of usefulness, I would think 'detect poison' is more useful than 'detect magic'. Simply put, an ID scroll can show whether an item is magic or not, which is most probably what you'll use on a new weapon/armour/misc object (rendering detect magic a bit useless), but it doesn't detect poisoned foods at all.
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It appears that some skills and spells were missing on the list in the very first post of this thread so they still need a trainername next to them.
Also Second attack (Lanseril) was removed from the list, since second attack was replaced by some other skill some time ago.
Now here's a list of the missing skills/spells (They have been added in the first post of this thread today to make things easier.)
Skills:
advanced melee
crossbow
face
firearm
manipulate
master melee
meditate
phase
poison weapon
sling
slip
smash
strangle
throw
true strike
Spells:
battle rage
burning skull
corrupt armor
flame arrow
flight
fortify mind
gate
hold person
inferno
life transfer
mana shield
meteor shower
midas touch
mind electricity
mind fire
minor identify
numb mind
paralyze
poison
protection from cold
psi panic
remove alignment
sleep
slowness
stoneskin
suffocate
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Face - Outlaws in Hole in the Wall
Flight - Space Bandit
Midas Touch - King Midas
Strangle - Any Orsini in Fenizia
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Some from-top-of-the-head suggestions:
advanced melee - Sir Ector (Camelot)
crossbow - Captain of the Guards on Robber Baron Castle roof
firearm - Butch Cassidy or any of the marshals
manipulate - Cesare Fellini
master melee - Lancelot
meditate - The Hermit (Ta-Beneth), Colby the hermit
sling - Cro Magnon chief
slip - Doc Holiday
smash - some Pirate on Pirate ship
strangle - bravo in Fenizia
throw - Neanderthal chief
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flight - the spaceman (The House Of 1001 Pleasures)
gate - L'Hannan (Dun-shivaar)
life transfer Cheiron
mana shield - Master Damian (Dun-Shivaar)
numb mind - Circe
poison - Camilla Donatello
protection from cold - Bigfoot
remove alignment - Dr Jekyll's nephew?
slowness - The Lotus eater
stoneskin - gargoyles in Odessin, or some statue
suffocate - Calypso (Odyssey)
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I'll update the list after school.
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What I really need now are trainers for these skills/spells:
Smash
Control Weather
Enchant Weapon
Fortify Mind
Hold Person
Mana Blast
Mana Transfer
Meteor Shower
Mind Electricity
Mirror Shield
Paralyze
Polymorph
Psi Panic
Recharge
Shield
Sleep
Static Shield
Shocking Grasp
Steelskin
Summon
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Polymorph is obvious - Circe of course, she invented it, after all
Control weather - either a druid, a shaman or an Indian Medicine man
I think we could use the Constellations for some of the following:
Mana Blast
Mana Transfer
Meteor Shower - The Pleiades
Mind Electricity - Electra
Psi Panic
Paralyze
(I'll check their descs tomorrow, see what fits)
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Polymorph is obvious - Circe of course, she invented it, after all
Polymorph isn't a player available spell.
And is only avail as potions from circe.
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Really? Shall we turn the who-list into all polymorphed players?
Every GM possesses the spell polymorph and to my knowledge it works on other players.
So either the spell needs to be removed from the GM-spelllist or it needs to be looked at.
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Hmm..actually, I thought all the skills/spells that are T2L50 and below are given to GMs. Like the spell polymorph and the skill identify, even if spellinfo states that it can't be learnt by any class. Sort of a 'bonus' to GMing.
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I thought all the skills/spells that are T2L50 and below are given to GMs. Like the spell polymorph and the skill identify, even if spellinfo states that it can't be learnt by any class. Sort of a 'bonus' to GMing.
That is currently the case, but I'm not really sure that it was intended to be that way. (That is GM's having skills/spells that no one else does.)
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I don't really see any reason why players couldn't have polymorph, as long as it is a tier 4 level 50 spell, and provided that polymorph has a reasonably equal chance of making the victim tougher or weaker.
As for GMs getting skills/spells that other players don't - maybe that should be looked into, in connection with a general overhaul of who gets which skills and spells and at what tier/level.
This has been discussed before - and also a 'Specialist' alternative has been discussed, where the players could choose to delve deeper into any one of the classes, getting a 5th tier with some specialized skills/spells, instead of going for GM. (The GMs would of course not get these specialist skills). This is something that I'd like to see myself, because it would be good for RP, and also make the players a bit more individual. It should be relatively simple to implement on top of our current system too. The main problem would of course be to find equally attractive skills/spells for all 8 classes.
Perhaps this is worth a thread of its own - if it doesn't already exist. I think I remember Angel posting something along those lines, but haven't got time to look for the thread now..
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A 5th tier with specialized skills/spells would be great, as an alternative for GMing, but I would think that after some time, the mud becomes geared to GMs, or certain specific classes (that specialize in combat).
This is because at higher levels, more and more important mobs become immune to backstab, poison, directionals, bash, steal, and all the fun skills the individual classes get, and a lot of doors are unpickable.
These mobs are important, they are quest mobs or give tons of xp or gold or eq, hence these restrictions, and usually unpickable doors are because they hold the secret to a quest.
But then again, don't players play these classes for the skills they get? Eg, let's say that the big bad Lion of Harte stole the armbone of Robert, and there's a quest to get it back.
As a thief, maybe I could steal the armbone, and return it to the people.
As a ranger, I might poison the lion.
As a caster class, I might use directionals on him.
As an esper/mage, I could cast negative status effect spells on him.
As a warrior, I might occasionally bash and behead him.
As a hunter, I might shoot him with my bow from a distance, before coming in and killing him, relying on cure critic.
As a priest, I'd buff up and kill him with spells, healing on the way.
As a gypsy, I'd tinker and/or manipulate weapons, then kill him.
But chances are, the lion would be flagged !steal, !poison, !bash, sentinel, and probably behind an unpickable door, the same as many quest mobs or high level mobs. So only pure combat and direct combat skills would work on it, and hence classes that rely on skills/spells apart from that are not as effective when un-GMed.
I guess the question is that would the specialist skills the tier 5 players get for individual classes work on all mobs, or just for the lower level, unimportant mobs?
As a mud focused on quests (that's why I like 4D:)), sometimes some mobs have to be just the way they are, and some doors unpickable. But somehow I feel that there are way too many mobs that are immune to fun skills, and doors that are unpickable, just because they can be set as such, not because they hold the secret to quests and stuff.
Then again, quests like VE, Alpha Centauri, Isis and Osiris, Carthage Bay, work well, and they don't rely on high level mobs or hide behind unpickable doors.
The reason for me GMing is for the T1 and T2 buffs, as well as cure critic, as it makes toe-to-toe combat a lot easier, as compared to a non-GMed thief.
I'd RP a thief, but preferably a GM-ed one :)
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GM's don't get tinker or brew or scribe, which are below tier 2/level 50.. Cause they're specialised skills/spells for their class. I always thought polymorph was just a fun GM spell..
I swear it'd be easier to just rework the tier 4 system and remove GM, than adding another tier and trying to balance it with the strength of GM.. I see that being a lot less feasible than just having 4 tiers, no GM, and allowing either multiclassing or specialising. And having the rewards and detriments equal..
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Diandra, who has been setting vnums on the Trainer suggestions in the Admin Board, posted this list, and I thought I'd share it.
The following zones have no trainers so far:
15 Royal Forest
17 Little Italy
27 Prehistoric Forest
35 Westward Ho!
40 Central Mediterranean Sea
47 New Goznemia
57 Dragon Caves
62 Poon Towers
63 Alpha Centauri Planets
74 Outback
78 Serf Village
79 Lostlands
81 Valley of Kings
82 Alpha Centauri
96 Jurassic Ocean
97 Jurassic Park
130 Dodge City
136 Coloma River Valley
172 Cosmo Canyon
187 Planet Whotvar
189 Nile River
191 Dragon Island
214 Ali Baba's Cavern
219 NightDragon Realms
228 Golf Course
237 Whotvar II
238 Planet of the Reptiles
270 Nightdragon II
300 Spaceship Titanic
340 Game Grid
500 North Aegean Sea
510 Corellian Sector
520 Poon Ocean
521 Poon Underwater
526 The Ranch
700 Dark Planet
Some of them are of course travel zones, or 'hunting ground' with mostly animals, but several others, in particular the highlighted ones have mobs that should be good for the puropose, so let's try to find something for these zones as we divide. the last skills/spells.
Generally I think that the 'better' a zone is, the more motivated it would be to put some trainers in it, since trainers in a zone will attract players, and it's in the general interest of the mud to primarily lure new players into the best zones.
And here is a list of the skills/spells that still lack trainers, if anyone has any suggestions:
- enchant weapon
- psi panic
- recharge
- sense life
- static shield
- shocking grasp
- steelskin
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I'd say knock for the tomb robbers in Valley of the Kings, and Enchant Weapon for the mage in Ali Baba (he enchanted the ankh)
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Because many of the mobs are agro.
I suggest that instead of the skills being taught by these mobs, new mobs be made that are near and related to these existing mobs that do the training.
It will be easier to do, since all the mobs can be added in a single zone and tested in one place, and just have the resets done in game.
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I don't see anything wrong with aggro mobs teaching skills.. As long as you can practice during a fight. ;D
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By that argument, a problem is that sometimes you kill the mob before you can practice, other times it is killed by someone who just wants to get past the mob.
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Even though bash already is solved, I got to suggest Toke Thickhead for it, since it's just too IC to resist:
QUOTE: 'Toke Thickhead actually did get his name because of his habit of bashing doors head first - regardless of if they are open or not...'
There has to be some mob in Future to use for psi panic and shocking grasp, perhaps one in Dark Planet? For instance the Bayon or the Korpik? (The Korpik could work for shocking grasp too). It's a nasty zone, but at least those mobs are not aggro.
Okkyokk, who loads in Yudore (Alpha Centauri) is another suggestion for future related fighting skills, and the Groaci are known thieves and also have a 'collective brain'.
C3P0 could perhaps reach steelskin, or some of the other Androids on the IGTCs? Or the Jimilak (That's Dark planet too). Or the AT-AT Walker on Hoth (unless you prefer to use that for Static Shield).
For recharge I'd suggest Bolomi, the Repairman in Wawat, or some weaponsmith in Oldwest.
Sense life - any Hunter or Indian would make sense, perhaps Hawkeye or Running Dog. Or Shebanqy the Hunter in Kerma (Kush)
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I made a new mob for cure blind; Eos, the rosy-fingered Goddess of Dawn. She was so obvious that I couldn't resist it. (You'll find her somewhere as far east as you can get).
On another note, we've started setting up a few of the trainers in 6001 for a test of the new code. Once we are sure that the code works, we'll start implementing it on a full scale. So it is important that the final list gets set up as soon as possible, we don't want to end up doing a lot of work that has to be redone later.
One more thing that we need to decide on is how what info we give to the players on line.
- Should the name of the trainers be mentioned in each helpfile for the skills and spells?
- Or added to all the skills/spells in the skilllist as an extra column?
- Or both?
- Is any more detailed info needed, for instance WHERE the trainer can be found?
My own opinion is that for the low tier skills we should give an absolute location, for instance 'Mike, the Recall Trainer' , the medium skills could get the mob name an approximate location, (perhaps the zone name). like for instance 'Polyphemos in the Odyssey', and for a few of the top skills we could make it a Quest to find the trainer in question, by some vaguer hint that you'd have to think a bit about to understand
Also, it would be appreciated if those of you imms that have full OLC in 6000 would help with the work of making the trainers. Adding the training part is dimple enough, but since there are 200 skills, divided on at least three times as many mobs, it means a massive amount of work, and I hope Diandra and me will not be ending up doing it all. So if you want to help, mail me and Diandra, and we'll set you up with a hunk of the list.
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Hmm..how about
Low level skills - approximate zone / dimension
Medium level skills - vague hints
High level skills - nothing.
Because as an average player levels, he'll probably enter zones and find trainers for low, medium, high level skills. As he progresses to higher levels, he should have already found a few of the trainers for the high level skills..making vague hints redundant.
Giving locations like "Encircle skill can be found with the guildmaster in Olde Yorke" would just make the player run there, learn it, and leave the zone.
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I would go for a mob name + dimension + zone for all tier 1 skills/spells. Listed in the helpfile. Mob name + dimension for all tier 2 skills/spells. Listed in the helpfile. Mob name for all tier 3 skills/spells. Nothing for tier 4 skills/spells.
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Can't believe I'm going to say this... I'm going to agree with Virisin. I like his options.
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But remember..players can track mobs.
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Only some mobs. There are lots of !track mobs, as well as !track rooms.. I don't think it's all that much of a problem.
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I'll go with just checking back here to find which mob does the training.
I kind of agree with the idea of seeking out certain mobs to teach skills and how that will help differentiate the better players from the average, and make players more unique. Adding the exorborant cost to learning new skills/spells was bad enough, but this new idea justs make everything so much harder and frustrating.
Anyway, I trust you guys know what you are doing and that I will come to love this idea in time.
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Seeing every skill/spell has a suggested trainer we're now regarding this list as final and this thread will be locked.
Thanks to everyone who participated in all this and hopefully you'll see these changes soon implemented in the game.
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I suggest that for tier 4 skills and spells, the dimension / zone name should be mentioned in the help file.
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OK, I second that.
It will be hard enough for them to track down all those trainers. We don't want to frustrate them to the point of leaving. AND it will bring some traffic to those zones.