4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Loria on September 07, 2011, 10:57:29 am
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Kvetch and I were discussing an idea for helping newbies have a better chance at finding artifacts. As a side benefit, it might make things more fun for the oldbies too.
The problem with artifacts as I see it is that the only person who is notified that an arti has crumbled is the person who had it in the first place. And since it loads at the same place each time, that person could just go back to where it loads and wait for it. Meanwhile, newbies have no idea that the artis even exist, let alone know where they are loaded. So the idea went something like this:
What if we had a board that listed all the artifacts in the game, whether available or not, so that newbies know what to look for? We talked about having a list that showed which artifacts were available but quickly ditched the idea since it would make it too easy to use locate and find it quickly. So What if we had a separate list that showed how many artis were available for grabs at any given moment? It would be scripted/coded to load automatically. All the players would see is the number available, but not which ones.
But that still doesn't address the issue that newbies have no idea where to look for it. Listing its whereabouts on the board would cause more problems than it would fix, so What if the artis loaded in random places each time so that newbies and oldbies had the same chances at finding it?
Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?
Coders/Scriptors: Kvetch mentioned that a problem in coding this list would be that it would only update upon reboot, so the list would not be up to date. What are some ways around this? How could we get the list to be up to date as per that moment?
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Why not just have it announce to the world? That's a better way to do it anyway.
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I quite like this. One way or another a race for each new arti when it loads would be fun :D
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Arti's are definitely something I'd like to see revamped a bit, and I've discussed it quite a bit with Molly in the past. We focused more on making artifacts actually sought after again though and doing some major balancing, rather than what could be done to make them more accessible.
I think one reason they are kinda forgotten these days is because a lot of them were nerfed and now they're really not much better than any other equipment, Molly and I came up with quite a few things that could potentially change so I'll go through some of it:
Some basic artifact guidelines:
• Artifacts should have 8 points allocated to them in total with no more than 5 points on any one stat
• Artifacts should have a 1 percent chance to load
• Artifacts should NOT be timered, and should have NO maxloads
• Players should not be able to wear more than 3 artifacts at once
• Artifacts should be found on strong mobs in relatively far-away places
• Artifacts should not be found on non-unique mobs
• Artifacts should be !locate
• Zones should have a maximum of 2 artifacts
Any more potential guidelines I would like to hear about.
Artifacts should be relocated, currently every oldbie knows pretty much where to get every artifact, and every newbie has no idea. Add to this the fact that oldbies have all heard the hints from imms every so often and know that the vast majority of artifacts are in old zones. The actual counts are really sad to look at, and are as follows. I hope no one minds if I post this:
Zone Artifact Counts:
Odyssey – 1, Labyrinth – 2, Green Fenn – 1, Queltoria – 1, Down Under – 1, Sherwood – 1, East Mediteranean – 1, Cyclades – 2, Quixotica – 1, Future Spaceport – 1, Fenizia – 1, Dry Gulch – 1, Lostlands – 1, Temple of the Damned – 1, Odessin – 4, Rip in Time – 3, Midlands – 5, Camelot – 1, Starwars – 5, Dun-Shivaar – 2, Necromunda – 1, Convent – 1, Troll Forest – 3, Elven Forest – 1, Outer Space – 1, Mirkheim – 1, Dragon Island – 1
I already have a list of artifacts that includes which have ambiguous enough names that they could be relocated, which ones have names specific enough that they'd have to be made non-artifact, and where some strong, unique, well-hidden mobs are that could become artifact mobs, any immortal can feel free to ask me for this list if it would help them doing anything with artifacts.
I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of being able to just go check a board and immediately see if an artifact is in the game or not.. That would defeat the purpose of going to find out for yourself, also if you could see an artifact was in the game, you could just go around looking (better as a Thief with peek) at mobs you think might have the artifact and not even bothering to kill them if the artifact was in the game but clearly wasn't on the mob.
I am very keen to hear any other ideas on how to revamp the artifact system though, I think major things to focus on should be making sure artifacts are actually better than other equipment and untimered, so people WANT them. Making it so players can only wear 3 at once, so if a player has lots, there is no reason they shouldn't sell them to someone else, and making them very rare as well as relocating their positions.
The hunt for new artifacts would be quite a challenge I feel for some of us oldbies that don't get enjoyment anymore out of simply killing all the mobs we already know hold artifacts until we can pop one.
Mmmmmm :-*
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Coders/Scriptors: Kvetch mentioned that a problem in coding this list would be that it would only update upon reboot, so the list would not be up to date. What are some ways around this? How could we get the list to be up to date as per that moment?
Actually, that wasn't a problem I saw, that was an advantage. I know it could be scripted to update every 13 seconds, I just thought it would be better to update every 15 minutes to 2 hours - depending on how long it takes for the zone the board is in to reboot. This would leave a chance of the list being wrong... say it updates saying that 7 artifacts are in the game, people claim 3 of them and 1 more loads, when it resets it would say that there are 5 artifacts in the game. This would keep people guessing more than just saying exactly how many are in the game. Another thought was to let it say there are about 7 in the game when there is a random chance of the number being off one way or the other by up to 2 - a random chance easily scripted in. So if the board says seven, there could be 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 in the game. I do think that the board should not say there are 0 when there is at least one in the game.
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What about just one notification to the world that: "An artifact has loaded." Or something to that effect, keep it vague, along with a thorough rethink of stats and locations.
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Ah I see what you meant now Loria/Kvetch. Initially I thought you meant a board listing the artifacts with some kind of LOADED/NOT_LOADED sign next to each one - which is an idea I don't like. But if it's just something like, '3 artifacts loaded' or a message to the world saying 'An artifact has loaded' I wouldn't be too worried. I'm kinda meh on the idea though surely there are better ways to make artifacts more interesting than a weird locator device on each one to make it easier to know when to search for them.
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I'm getting a bit muddle-headed, probably because it's late, or maybe just because my memory is like a sieve...
So, now the objects with timers actually go poof when they should.
But I forgot: Did we decide to remove the timers on all artifacts?
(It's a relatively quick operation, but I want to be sure before I do it).
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Well Xeriuth did a poll and there was pretty much a consensus in favour of removing arti timers. So I would say yes.
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If you remove the timers of the Artifacts, how can other players gain a chance on getting one, seeing there's a max on how many can be ingame and they don't load every time. Last time I checked not everyone signs up for PK and if you remove the timers of arti's in my opinion new players will even get a lesser chance of ever finding the location of arti's if they no longer disappear. Or am I missing something here?
As for the poll: How many new players actually answered that one? ::)
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There is no point in max_loading any item, and there is no point in putting a timer on artifacts. Do away with both and there is absolutely no reason for people to hoard them. One might put a couple away as spares in case of DTs, but guess what? Even if they hoard them, they do absolutely no harm to other people's enjoyment of the game.
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^^ word to that. what are we getting out of a) the timers and b) the maxloads.
there is barely enough of a playerbase to warrant the number of arti's let alone their timers + maxloads.
It would take me probably a couple of months to maxload ANYTHING let alone a quality artifact, and I'm pretty good at that kind of thing.
Let's make them fun. Right now they're not.
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So in essence all you want is to make them artifacts just like any normal object in game but just with some higher stats (well or should be). Ok... that is fun indeed. ;)
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Hi Diandra. Who are you again?
Next, answer me this:
How many new players know shit about artefacts?
How many new players have ever owned an artefact AS IT IS with timers etc?
How many new players have even killed a mob that might POSSIBLY load an artefact?
The answer to all three is effectively zero.
Artefacts are for players who've been here more than a month or two. Last time I checked there were like 30k other rooms for players who haven't.
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Isn't that exactly what Kvetch tried to adress? Inform new players (yes even those who have only played for two months) somehow about arti's.
But seeing you want to see them downgraded to normal eq with some higher stats I wouldn't name them arti's anymore.
Just my two cents.
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What? I don't understand where you're coming from on this.
You think new players don't have enough to work out already? You think we're asking that artefacts be downgraded for them? You think oldbies aren't important? What??
I don't follow.
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Now that timers actually work and things crumble when they're supposed to, that fixes part of the problem. But there are still artis on people who are never going to log in and have their equipment crumble, which causes a problem. Unless you don't have to be online for them to crumble, in which case, ignore anything after sentence 1. Hell, you can probably just ignore this post all together, I'm sick and half asleep while I'm writing this.
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Yay, I still have the ability to confuzzle someone. ;D
Jaros this thread started by Loria/Kvetch who wanted to 4d-world to know when an arti came available in the game. This way the (new) players (no matter how long they have played) knows: oh I can go look for an arti.
So far that part.
Half way this thread someone (well you actually ;) following Xeriuth's poll) asked for the timers on arti's to be removed. Then someone else mentioned to remove the maxload and whatnot also.
If this happens (the removing of all restrictions) then in my eyes the arti's just become like any other item ingame but it has just some higher stats than the normal equipment. So to me that is downgrading them to normal eq. In your eyes it means: yes! they're available all the time, 'no' restrictions at all, so you may consider it upgrading. ;)
And the second part has nothing to do with the first part. :)
So hopefully this clarifies a bit what I meant.
As for the rest, even if he is tired and sick (hope you feel better soon Asmo), Asmodeus hit the nail actually.
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Stop winking at me, it's creeping me out.
I still don't see what you're adding to this thread.
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Your point being, Diandra? You are worried artifacts might become normal eq because we remove timers and max_loads?
Lets look at facts - I can get a silver-topped cane, gold waist watch, gold brow ring, and probably 20 of the best eq on this mud within an hour or two, some in ten mins (like the Robin's Dagger). And yet, these arent max_loaded, nor are they timered.
It will take me sometimes up to several weeks of constant killing to get one artifact. And how easy do you think it is to kill Voltron? I wouldnt call spending a few hours to kill him fun. All so these items can disappear in a very short period of time, so that we have to do it again and again?
What is the point of us doing the same shit again and again so that we can have our eq back?
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If we make it so there are no maxloads on artifacts so everyone is running around with a 15d15 badaxe of slaying, does that mean I can up the damage a level 50 mob does and its hitpoints so it balances the mob compared to what the normal mortals are wielding? Artifacts are really supposed to be unique items that not everyone can have - hence why they're called artifacts. I do understand why players wouldn't want maxloads ("they have it so I want to have it now") or timers ("if it crumbles someone else may be able to get it before I'm able to get it back - that's not fair"). I think a reason to have timers is to give everyone a chance to have the item. If you really like that item then yes, you'll have to go get it again, if you're not willing to do that then maybe you didn't like that item as much as you thought you did. To go with what Di said, if there are no timers or max loads then, yes, they are just another piece of "normal" eq that is only more difficult to get that everyone can have at the same time. What's the fun in that?
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Can we hear an actual player argue against removing timers from arti's instead of just IMMs? Otherwise I consider the argument void.
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Why the hell would any player (other than possibly a newbie that realizes unless there are timers there is no way they will ever get the "badaxe of 15d15" because they are all taken by oldbies) want to have timers on items? I'll admit that if I plkayed and had all of the "badaxe of 15d15's" and "amor of you can't touch this", I wouldn't want to have timers either. But just because as a player I wouldn't want it, doesn't mean that as an IMM I don't see the reason for it.
Or, maybe I should put it another way, what if we took off timers and then pwhiped so everyone has a "fair shot" of getting the artifacts. But wait.. Let me also let everyone else play for a week before you have your shot at getting any artifact. Would you still be so keen on not having timers then?
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Diandra is utterly wrong, 118 100 told me so.
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I think everyone is arguing about the wrong problem here. We're not dealing with the problem of "Should timers be removed from artifacts". We're dealing with the problem of "How do we make artifacts a more interesting and usable system, because currently it isn't."
For what it's worth, I agree that in the current system removing the element of a timer and max load to artifacts would make them indistinguishable from a normal item. There may be something that makes them more special with regards to the quests you have to complete or the mobs you have to kill to gain the artifact, but beyond that they actually would be a normal item. That's not really negative or positive, it's just what making a change like that would do.
I think however, that this argument over timers is distracting us from the real goal. How do we make artifacts more engaging for "mid range" players who are currently for the most part cut out of artifacts because of the current QIC system's maxloads? I think one step forward in that regard is to start talking about what a proper artifacts system should be. What would make artifacts cool? Don't focus on the exact system, but the "higher level" vision of what artifacts should be. What is their purpose? Why would you bother getting an artifact as a player? Why should the game even have artifacts as a system?
Once we get some answers to those questions we'll be on our way to actually being able to build a proper design and then from there steps away from implementing it.
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eek... don't tell anyone I said this but... I agree with Once.
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Once upon a time artifacts were held dear to everyone's hearts. I saw the Golden Horns of the Sun-Oxen sell for over a gold token once. That wasn't surprising, that was because artifacts were beloved. Then timers were added and the stats were nerfed and from that point on, no one gave two shits about artifacts.
So if we remove timers and give them better stats again and maybe limit players from wearing more than 3 at a time... We're making them just like boring normal equipment again?
I don't understand where you're coming from here Kvetch or Diandra.
Also what is this 15d15 badass axe of slaying you keep referring to Kvetch? There are no artifacts near that good.
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Or, maybe I should put it another way, what if we took off timers and then pwhiped so everyone has a "fair shot" of getting the artifacts. But wait.. Let me also let everyone else play for a week before you have your shot at getting any artifact. Would you still be so keen on not having timers then?
Yes this is legitimately a good idea. Pwipe would do wonders.
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I think Once is on the best track I've seen here.
It may just be my not being a good player, having not heard anything that has pointed me towards where artifacts are located, or some combination of both. But I've spent considerable time in some of the zones mentioned earlier in this thread and not found anything I recognized as an artifact. I was once given one, and was able to use it briefly, until the bug report that it could be used by someone that hadn't earned it was acted upon. Then I promptly found myself dead the next time I brought it into play, heck of a reward for being a guinea pig. ;D
It would be my guess that some of the mobs that drop these artifacts have been beat down to near death and then handed over to a buddy to finish off. Heck, I helped someone kill Greenie so they could wear the dragon legs, way back. Admittedly not as efficiently and with the finesse of the big boys would.
In the past I've been told of certain players having stockpiles of items that have been removed from the game, not artifacts, but determined to be overpowered and removed or changed. If this was or is the case, then I'm sure that some players would try to limit the supply by insuring a max load situation. Especially in a PK situation, I'd only want my allies to have the power pieces.
While I'd like to have the "badaxe of 15d15's" and "amor of you can't touch this"
and would not want them to disappear, especially in the middle of a battle, with no warning.
Don't these artifacts as is, contribute to the imbalance and "perfect set of equipment" complained of in another thread? And not having timers on them would just continue this. I didn't see any complaints of timers when a few knew that as long as they wore, held or wielded the item it didn't crumble or dissolve.
I have a problem with a one time announcement that an artifact unless it was a note to all, and had a date, time stamp. Otherwise people not online at the moment of the announcement would not know, and if they read the announcement several days later there probably would be little sense in hunting it. If they are like me they wouldn't know where to start hunting anyway.
After a pwipe, unless the artifacts are moved around, wouldn't the same players would have them again? So why bother.
Once's idea makes the most sense to me. That's a bit hard to say. :D
Okay, that's my opinion, now shoot it apart.
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Artifacts would be cool if they were worth having, worth sharing and worth selling/buying.
That means removing timers and making them powerful.
I also think restricting how many a player can wear would be a good idea, to free up their extras to be shared with friends or sold.
A one time notification that 'An artifact has loaded' could be fun, so if you're lucky enough to be on at the time you can race to track it down.
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I can see Artifacts not having timers. Not sure about Max load on artifacts but hey I'm a minority. Now thing I do have to reply to is most immortals ARE PLAYERS. So when an Immortal replies we are replying from both the immortal and mortal side of things. So please lets not insult immortals or others. So be nice Jaros :)
I also like the idea of random loading artifacts. That would reduce the chance of people hoarding Artifacts but the other thing is that lots of Artifacts have variables on them (I could be wrong since I don't build so if a builder could answer this for me or someone who knows). So now who is going to go through and make all of those changes to scripts. I'm guessing that all of the artifacts will need to be manually edited to remove max load. Not sure if we could run a script outside of the game to strip the Max load. Again this is outside of my area of knowledge.
Remember I don't know much about artifacts so don't blast me too much on it :)
Prometheus
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Allow me to give you some historical background here: :P
Originally artifacts were meant to be very rare, possibly unique items, hard to get, and consequently a bit better than other items.
Hence the random seldom load and the maxload.
Some of them loaded on strong mobs, others in containers that were reset so that there only was a chance of the content loading when the mud rebooted.
The way the code was supposed to work was that no more of an artifact would load, if there was already a number exceeding the maxload in the game. However, if a player logged out with an artifact, that wasn't taken into the maxload, because then it wasn't 'in the game'.
In the old days artifacts didn't go poof, and you could sell them to other players for hefty sums. As the older players have testified, they were much sought after, cool and popular and prestigious.
Then the word spread about the locations, since some players would always blab about secrets.
Then some players started to hoard them, with the result that no more loaded.
Then some players started to use 'mules' to store them on, (alts that they only logged in and out to place extra equipment on), thereby avoiding the maxload restriction.
So suddenly, instead of the intended max 5 of a certain artifact, there could be 25, of which Player A had 15 and player B 7. Another example of how a few individuals can ruin the fun for the many...
Also the artifact code was a bit buggy, which didn't help things.
Those were the reasons for changes like timers and artis bonding to the finder.
Both of which I agree were not very good solutions to the problems.
Artifacts were never 'nerfed' however. What happened was that as the world grew, every builder wanted something 'special' in their own zone, and other equipment escalated. So, in comparison, the artifacts became less desireable.
And since by then the staff had realised the other problems with the existing artifacts, very few new ones were made.
In conclusion, I have to agree with Once.
Come up with a new system for artifacts that is fun and interesting and challenging and cannot be abused too much.
I agree that no equipment shouldn't suddenly go poof in the middle of a fight.
I also agree that most items, including artifacts, should be sellable, to support a player driven economy.
I also like the suggestion to restrict how many artifact each player is allowed to wear at the same time.
I also think that artifacts could be a bit extra good, as long as it doesn't unbalance things.
I wouldn't mind a global message announcing that 'An artifact has loaded', provided it doesn't specify which one.
But apart from that I really haven't seen any ideas yet that are good enough to make me want to put any work into the artifact system.
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Here is one thought however, that possibly could be developed into something:
Base the artifact system on how Excalibur loads.
The sword is set as !rent, so you cannot log out with it, !melt-on-drop and no put in houses or containers.
As long as ONE Excalibur is in the game, no more will load in the stone in Camelot. But as soon as the player with the sword logs out, it loads again at next reset and there will be a chance for others to get it from the stone.
Translated into artifacts, it would mean that there could be 25 different artifacts in the game at the same time, but only one of each kind.
And no player would be allowed to wear more than 3 at the same time.
They could carry more of course. But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).
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ew >:(
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I think everyone forgot about one MAJOR MAJOR fact - artifacts are rare drops. There is a very low percentage that an artifact will load, and I only increase this chance when I constantly go back to the mob and kill it over and over and over again for several weeks. They are in essence harder to get than quest items.
If I DT now, I can get all my quest items in no time. But it will take me weeks on end to get all my artis back. Timers and max_loads were stop gap solutions on an old problem, neither of which are relevant now. There is absolutely no point in having timers and max_loads - it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.
Like I said, artis are ALREADY much more difficult to get than a quest item. If you had prior knowledge to a quest, you can get it easily. If you had prior knowledge of where the arti loads, it will take you much longer to get. If you had absolutely no knowledge of a quest item, again, you would be able to go through a quest and when completed, earn your quest item. However, running through an area, you would easily miss an arti if it didnt load because most zones discourage you killing mobs when you are questing.
So in ALL CASES, artis already hold a special place. You just forget and think oh look at all these players running around with artis, but you are talking about an extremely elite few players that have it and you cannot set rules just for them and ruin it for the rest.
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Well, artifacts may be rare drops, but that's a bit of the idea behind them. Even the name 'artifact' indicates that they should be rare and hard to get, and I really see no reason to change that principle.
And however seldom they load, that doesn't change the fact that some players seem to collect them like stamps.
So some restrictions will be necessay, if we want them to be better than normal items.
Once has an idea about how to handle artifacts, which I rather like, so I think we'll go with that.
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From the Detector helpfile which will be in next reboot (Note we may tweak the values for the detector as time goes on and change it when the full artifact system comes in):
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DETECTOR
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Usage: detector high
detector low
Duration: Infinite
*
The Detector system allows a player to increase the power of their
time distortion detector which analyzes ripples in the timeline
for the materialization of legendary artifacts.
*
Setting the Detector to "High" will drain 15 Tradepoints every
time the detector detects an artifact. Currently having the detector
at a low setting will not charge anything and will indicate the
dimension of the rift.
*
To see what your current Detector level is type worth.
*
See also: TRADEPOINTS
*
Special Thanks: Jaros for ideas and testing.
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Input on pricing would be good. I personally think 15 TP to know the zone of the arti that just loaded is nothing.
I would also like to see the basic level divided into low and medium, where low is free and just detects a ripple as artifacts load and nothing else, and medium costs something small but gives you the dimension. Then the high setting would be much more expensive and give you the actual zone.
I think this will really come into its own with the possibility of artifacts that load on random mobs and in random locations, somewhere new each time.
Cheers Once :)
Full artifact revamp on its way, as he said.
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But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).
So... if I never log out - like a lot of the players do - then I never lose my arti until the the system copyovers or reboots. I'm just saying...
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But as soon as they log out they'd all go poof. (Possibly with a delay of one hour, to compensate for unintended dropping of link).
So... if I never log out - like a lot of the players do - then I never lose my arti until the the system copyovers or reboots. I'm just saying...
They're not going to work like that :D. More like as long as you're actually using your artifacts you're fine and don't have to worry about anything, but if you want to hoard artifacts and not use them, well mam, we may have a problem there.
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I agree, 15 tradepoints is 2 jars from punt. We can gather 100-200 in 5 minutes through a levelling run. Low-medium-high cost should be more like 10-100-1000
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Also randomload artifacts all over the dimensions would be great with this.
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I agree, 15 tradepoints is 2 jars from punt. We can gather 100-200 in 5 minutes through a levelling run. Low-medium-high cost should be more like 10-100-1000
Can you also post that in this thread:
http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,708.msg4601.html#new
I'd like to keep criticisms to new features in a centralized place so after the dust settles I can go back in and revise as needed. If it's strewn about threads like this it might end up missed when I'm in the mood to code.
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I like the idea of random-load chests that have those old GOD_ITEMS in them that had mini-timers and like 50 damroll. Then you have the occasional chest that loads an artifact which is untimered, potentially has an innate (if innates were removed from normal eq to make it a real bonus) and slightly better stats but the magicalness means you can only wear 2. These chests could load something like 1% of the time on mobs, and an artifact could load 20% of the time in the chest.
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My point is, artis are already rare loads, so there is already a distinction between an arti and a quest item. As I stated, its already harder to get an arti - if you are saying that people are collecting them like stamps, there are only a few players that have them, and you could use the same exact arguments about quest items.
And final point, there is NO arti that has better stats than quest items.
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Molly said that she was not opposed to making artis have good stats. If that happened, Horus, would you feel opposed to max_load or timers?
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There are rules for building equip that have been routinely ignored for years, end result being over-powered quest equip that leaves artifacts not worth the effort. There has already been a LOT of work put into the rebalancing process (thanks Viri and Molly) that just never got implemented. So one way or another, artifacts will soon be worthwhile again.
Then there will be a limit to how many artifacts you can wear, and something along the lines of a coded safeguard to make it prohibitively expensive to store artifacts you're not using.
Whatever happens there will be no timers on artifacts.
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Artifacts were nerfed. Not just left in the dust by more powerful equipment. 3 prominent ones that changed were Bloody horntips of minotaurus, deep blue eyes (although they still are decent), and the supple hooded longcoat. I'm sure others changed but can't think of them offhand. Considering the rarity they are to load their stats should be better. Although they shouldn't be epic. They should be on par with hard quests, because of the time it takes to get one.
I also think that we should just start calling what we call artifacts, rare-loads. Because that is what they are. Since they are part of zones, and have a history, keep them, just don't make them part of the new artifact system. The new artifact system should be epic items. As good and on the same par as the *Excalibur* sword which is a quest reward that only one player can use at a time.
I played somewhere once that the artifact system worked like this. It had something similiar to the detector we have now that would prompt the location of all artis in game, whether a player owned it currently or it was somewhere else. These artis stayed with their master, the one who got it, and would only stay with them if they would be made happy. You made the artifacts happy by of course killing with them. Whether it be pk or mk. You could also only ever have one arti on at a time because they would get jealous of each other. Unless the one liked you enough to let it slide. This persisted even through loggin off, but if you logged off too long the artifact wasn't happy and would leave you and go back into the world for someone else to find it and take care of it. And they of course hated it if you'd die by any means. This idea I think would work well here. Details of course would need ironed out, but overall could work for the new artifacts we want. it should be brand new items, epic items with unrivaled stats, non perzable, and unique. Some artifacts may be better for casters levelling, melee levelling, melee pk, caster pk, perhaps some with varying degrees of those, or hybrids, perhaps some with unique innates like brace or mana shield. Maybe even make it so they work similiar to the Orcrist, and can gain levels with their master, so you always want to try and get your primary artifact back to get more levels on it to make it better. they could start out good stats, and gradually increase the more active you are with it. This idea promotes activity in the game even more. There is a lot of ideas I mentioned, of course not all will be liked, so discuss away, and let me know what you think?
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Could perhaps even hold a player artifact creation contest. Submissions for the best artifacts that would be voted upon by the rest of the players. Creators name could be incorporated into the artifact somehow, perhaps as the artifacts original owner.
Maybe.... Molly O'Hara's talking broomstick
Makes comments to you about how its fearful Molly may take it back again and use it to sweep the floor! It's meant for magic fights afterall, not cleaning up some dust!
Can get creative! The ideas are limitless!
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That's such a creative idea! Contests are always fun. Keeps the players actively involved in the improvement process of 4D. Having an artifact that has emotions and demands etc seems to go along with this mud, seeing as how I can kick wind in its abdomen and hear its death cry. So why not have artifacts that hates your guts or gets jealous of another artifact?
It also answers the issue of hoarding and going inactive with an arti.
Great idea, Xeri!
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Those sound like GOD_ITEMS, short term ultra-uber equip. I like it, and I really like the idea of player submitted ones.
Artifacts are artifacts though, designed to be powerful, extremely hard to find and super-valuable. Some will be moved, some will not be artifacts anymore (just pretty sweet rare-loads), and some will be brand new, but that kind of info will be kept a little bit under wraps ;D.
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What about perzed artifacts that some oldbies already have?
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dunno