4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: horus on November 11, 2009, 04:55:55 pm
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Just so we can have an information overload...
I am tending towards a system whereby we replace all remorts and tiers with a simple level 100 simple. There isnt really a place for remorts etc when we have skill trees. So in place of remorts, we now have levels 101 - 110, which are basically mortals that are so powerful, they have become demi-gods themselves. The number of demi-gods is based on a pyramid structure, where there is unlimited number of 101s, but right at the top, there are only a few that can be 110. So, if those slots are filled up, then the 109s need to challenge the 110s to replace their position. Obviously, you are only allowed ONE character (this means no ALTS allowed) above 105.
So, I am now asking for ideas on what special powers these demi-gods should have. Remember, they are not gods, so dont bother asking for immy powers :p
A simple example I can think of is, 105s now do not require sustenance, so can go without food and water. Level 110 could get a percentage spell resistance - say 10% innate.
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Go without food and water.. SO WE CAN'T GET DRUNK ANYMORE?!?
I need to think about avatars first before I comment. Can't decide if I like the idea.
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Oh I like a 100 level system though.
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Create a room called "Immortals Stomach", and any item an imm eats gets transfered there, and whatever level is allowed access to whatever was eaten. :D
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If you have to challenge for these positions, it seems to me like these positions are essentially pvp? Will these battles be in arena type places, or fight to the death, winner gains the spoils. Idea would be to have a unique wear loc for avatar item. The item makes you the level, so there is one item, sort of like BBV that makes you 110, and only 1 or 2 of them in the game. So on and so forth down to 101. Now these advantages shouldn't be way overpowering so the individual isn't like king supreme and pk's people in 2 seconds...
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I'm king supreme anyway and I PK people in under 2 seconds. 8)
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It will be PvP in arena type battle, so no looting etc. However, the loser will get their xp lowered to the previous level.
Unique eq slots is a consideration for avatars. Thats the type of ideas I am looking for.
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could I get some more information about lvls 101-109? are there slot limits to those as well? if so, will the work on a descending scale like for example:
109 = 1 slot
108 = 2 slots
107 = 3 slots
106 = 4 slots
105 = 5 slots
101-104 = unlimited
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I know my age has addled my brain so I forgot to mention that each avatar level can only be achieved once you reach the xp required and then you have to do an immortal controlled quest. And of course, the third requirement for levels 105+ is to challenge an existing avatar of that level.
The numbers of each avatar level needs more thought, but I am just going to throw some rough ones now:-
110 - 3 avatars
109 - 6 avatars
108 - 10 avatars
107 - 15 avatars
106 - 20 avatars
105 - 30 avatars
104 and below - unlimited
RPerly, this can be explained by the balance of the pantheons. The greater gods will always be wary about balance, and having mortals becoming almost god-like, they must control the balance of power, and to ensure that these demi-gods do not get so numerous that they may take over (kind of like what the greek gods did to the titans). So because of these limited positions, there will be jostling for places.
Being an avatar is an indication of your mudding prowess, your awesome questing ability, your destructive ability against mobs, and your respect earned amongst your mortal peers, whether that be through your greatness, or through raw might of a pk challenge.
So the powers of 105+ will be significantly better than of those below because of the limited positions.
So who to challenge when you have attained the ability to reach 105? My initial thought was, there should be a ranking system based on pk challenges. If someone wants to be ranked higher, they can challenge the higher ranked player of the same avatar level and this can only occur once per month. The winner then gains one rank, and the lose drops a rank - players cannot challenge two ranks above them, they need to win against the one above them, before challenging the next player.
Any new player ready to reach that level then challenges the lowest ranked player of that level.
The biggest issue with this system are players who disappear for long periods and so other players cannot challenge them. I'm up for any solution to this problem, but one solution could be the absent player temporarily loses a level every several months, and so freeing up that slot for new players, and when they finally do come back, they can then challenge a player from their ORIGINAL level (even if they went down to level 104 from 109) and if they win, they regain their old level. Of course, the absent player goes down to level 104 before it stops, because this is the level that does not require any challenges.
As I said, this is a work in progress, I do not have a neat solution to everything, nor are my ideas firm and concrete on this matter. More research needs to be done, but I think this will add an element of excitement to those that pine for remorts, and have nothing else to do once they achieve everything.
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I like. :)
Especially the part where you have to compete for a limited number of positions.
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If 105 and up is primarily for pk'rs, I feel that the rewards should be suited towards pk only. But what to give and how to not make them overly powerful is the question.
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105s and above are not primarily for PKers, they are only challenged in arenas. They do not necessarily have to PK.
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I just went by your line of...
My initial thought was, there should be a ranking system based on pk challenges. If someone wants to be ranked higher, they can challenge the higher ranked player of the same avatar level and this can only occur once per month.
Typically people who aren't pk'rs or don't like pk'ing won't do things pk related, like arena and such. Nowadays people don't go pk due to the fact it's imbalanced and they could get whooped majorly, however with new system everyone will ideally be on equal footing. I could see pk opening up a bit more then. So essentially whoever wants to get to high 100's will be pk'rs. Not saying non pk'rs couldnt get it, but that's what it will turn into.
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I'm not so sure the Avatar system would be primarily PK geared. Remember that Ruby won the last KOTM tournament, and she is basically a Questor/Explorer, who to my knowledge isn't PK and even dislikes it. A reward could just as easily be something that facilitates exploring.
Anyhow, the beauty of Anubis' Avatar system is that it provides an open ended game. As it is, most players just stop playing actively and start squatting at Recall once they reach GM. But with the Avatar system, you cannot just rest on your old laurels, if you want to stay in the top position, because someone newer and hungrier will call you out, and you'll need to keep your fighting skills honed to meet the challenges. If you don't accept the challenge you lose the position. If you stop playing altogether, you will automatically lose the position too after a given time.
I think it's a stroke of genius.
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I certainly like it. I'm an old hand at PK muds that used this very system, and it was a lot of fun running around and trying to get positions. Pretty sweet,
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I like it.
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Xeri is right in pointing out that basically levels 105-110 become pk levels. I mean, if I never pk, I don't know HOW to seriously pk - and I admit, I don't PK and I don't know how to PK - I'm a sitting duck for any pker that comes by if I'm in a pk area even if they're level 1 and I'm level 50. If you have to PK to get the level, then how is it not pk levels? But, having said that, I'm not sure if there is any other way that having the higher levels that could be challenged, and I'd like to see people be able to challenge for them. Do we do riddles? Puzzles? Quests???? Something that doesn't involve PK just sounds rediculous in the mud. Once you do a riddle, you know the answer so the next time you're challanged and you get that riddle, there's the answer. *shrug* So, until a non-pk idea comes up, I have to agree with the pk one - whether or not I really like it.
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I agree with Kvetch we need an alternate path at least up to 109 or 108 for non-pk or non-arena players.
And honestly I played on a mud which had 501 levels with 500 being normal and 501 being avatar quest level. Then they changed it to 110 with 100 being normal leveling and 101 to 110 being quest based.
Honestly I don't want to play on that system again been there done that for me. So I will stick with being Prom.
Prometheus
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Didn't ruby only win KOTM due to abusing Call Lightning with a major focus allowing no one to have any shot at all? Could be just a rumor, but that's what I heard...
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After conversation today it seems like a few non-PKers would throw a fit if levels 105-109 were even at all combat based. Alternate paths seem impossible unless someone can come up with something that isn't PK, RP has it's merits but is seriously subjective.. I hate it when 20 line emotes filled with adjectives is somehow 'good RPing' but that's another story. And even if RPing was another path to level 109, we still have to worry about the non-PK and non-RP players.. To be honest I don't think there is another aspect of 4d that could be made seriously competitive, except maybe horse racing but that seems a bit pathetic compared to PK and RP.. Space fights maybe? Might be too combat centered for the non-PKers.
Either way I'd rather this avatar system just be turned into a PK ladder system, and make the highest level possible 100. Because it seems even if there were no rewards at all for being level 109 rather than level 105, people are still not happy.
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So, maybe a thread on PK ladder?
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what's PK about death safe arenas?
Why not just make an arena that people can channel on public official channels for positions and stuff? Nonpks shouldn't be afraid in the slightest about dying by my blade...because they're safe...they've just lost their spot.
I like real arenas anyhow. I hate the whole arena thing in Old Yorke. I've always been keen on those auto arenas where you can just challenge some mo-fo, and people see the challenges and can watch the fight in the arena stands (which I think should be linked to recall somewhere hehe).
Those are real arenas. IMMs can open the killing fields for the bloodbath (multiple challengers) like we have now, but the other arena would be open all of the time for simple one on one battles.
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I like those challenge systems, with little mini zones for each. One could be just one room, no fleeing or retreating just pure fight to the death. Could get all interesting.
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I'm confused.
We already have permanently open arenas, which I think are 4-6 room grids. One is the Tournament place, one step down from the center, the other is the Camelot Arena. Anyone, including spectators can go there for safe fights any time.
We also have the Gladiators, which currently also are open to anyone - although that might change after we implement the skilltrees.
Can you be a bit more specific about what it is you want, please? Is it a public challenge system? Or a public system to keep track of who has the most wins? Or a secluded area where only the two comabatnts can enter?
All those things should be pretty easy to implement, in fact some of it exists already in the Arena code.
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All combined. Say when you type challenge player, it offers an actual challenge that they can decline or accept, perhaps an accept 5 which would give 5 min of prepartion. Both players are transported to the arena where they fight to the death, or multiple players. Now an idea for how people can actually safely view the fight would be such as a limited snoop ability for only those that are in arena. Say Virisin and I are fighting, they can see the fight through my eyes destroying Virisin, not seeing the commands and such I type, but the actual output of typing them, only the combat ones as to decrease spam for them. I'm sure it'd be possible to do something like that, not sure how difficult though. If the system could keep track of how many times they've challenged, been challenged, challenges to them accepted or rejected, challenges won and lost. Of course you could also only challenge those close to your level.
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This is quite off-topic from avatars now because people don't want avatars to be combat related in order to progress. I'd still love avatars because it gives an open-ended game and such, but apparently too many people are not interested in PvP combat at all so I'm not really sure avatars will work at all. I don't see any other objective way of determining who is better than who at something with enough weight in 4d to require it to be the end-game, other than combat.
This is why we're now discussing some form of proper PK ladder system.
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I'm actually all for the idea of the Avatar levels being 100% combat based, as long as it is mostly an honorary position, which doesn't give huge in game advantages. I really don't see any realistic way to code in similar things for exploring and questing. And after all, combat is a major part of the game.
You don't even have to be PK to get the Avatar levels, but it probably will be the PKillers that are mostly interested in the positions, because they are the most competitive. So what? It gives you the PK ladder you want, it gives the PKillers a goal to strive for, and it provides an open ended game.
I really think Avatars is a brilliant idea, the way Anubis describes the setup.
We should probably try do something similar with artifacts. A limited number in the game that you'd have to compete for. And make them lootable in Arena fights to give non PKillers a chance too. Whoever owns an artifact, has to defend it in the arena when challenged for it, or they'd automatically lose it. A bit like an extended BBV.
But then again, that's probably a bad idea. It's late and I am too tired to think about consequences.
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I am absolutely with you on that one Molly.