4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Kvetch on November 18, 2009, 08:34:45 pm
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*whimpers pitifully at the hopefully willing part* Willing, able and having time are 3 different things. The way I see it, even if Anubis had the skill trees ready to go in in 2 months, it's going to take at least that, if not longer, for builders to go through and do things like - drop prices on all eq - change all eq to new things.. etc, etc...
Brit did touch on something though in his post that I want to pull out. Stats.
From the game port:
CONstitution:
Increases the max health gained when you level and health regeneration rate.
For fighters and rogues it increases the damage of their weapons.
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<WHY does CON increase the damage of anyone's weapons? What does a player having a good CON have to do with changing the attributes of a weapon?>
CHArisma:
Increases your minimum magic damage, extends the duration of spells, lowers
cost of items in shops and increases max health gained when leveling.
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<Seriously, WHY doesn Charisma affect anything that has to do with magic?>
DEXterity:
Increases attack rating and speed and armor class, lets you cary more items.
Dex is also good for thief skills, like picking locks and backstabbing.
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<WHY does dex let you carry more items? Seems that'd be a thing STR would do.>
INTelligence:
Greater gain from practice sessions and gives you more mana when you level.
Increased the chance of becoming better at a skill/spell through practice.
Is the primary affect for increasing damage of all attack spells.
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<I can basically agree with this since it has to do with magic.>
STRength:
Adds to your max carriable weight and your speed.
For fighters and rogues it increases the damage of their weapons.
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<Ah, so STR DOES have something to do with carrying things - still don't know why DEX does. Now, this increasing damage thing I can see - if it's a hand to hand weapon. Most ranged weapons aren't made to use the STR of a user. IE: doesn't matter if you're str 13 or 18 if you shoot a gun - bullet's still gonna travel as fast as the gunpowder in it.>
WISdom:
Gets you more practice sessions and mana when you level and adds to magic
damage. Increases the chance of becoming better at a skill/spell through
practice.
<I can agree with this.>
I think maybe one of our first steps really should be to look at the stats and see what they SHOULD be, not neccessarily what they are right now in the game. I posted the above with my comments for a first look, but here is my proposal:
STR - is obviously strength and thus should affect anything that is strength based - this goes for carrying capacity, damage increase on melee weapons and even skills that would use strength as a base for the skill. For example, if you had a weightlifting skill.
DEX - is obviously dexterity so should give a bonus to anything that is movement related - movement, dodge, evasion, etc. Also, a bonus to AC because of the ability to dodge - that may be hampered if you are wearing armor you can not affectively dodge in (like full plate mail). Also, should affect any skill that is based off movement - say like if you had a swimming skill.
INT - This is your intellegence. This is how smart you are. This should be how well you LEARN a skill/spell, so would in effect give you a bonus to how quickly you can learn a spell either through PRACTICE. Should affect any skill that is based off learning things by books/knowledge aka: if you needed to know what a certain heraldry symbol meant.
WIS - this is your Wisdom aka: your common sense. This should be how well you con comprehend what you've learned. So it would increase your ability to increase your spell/skill knowledge by USE. Should also affect any skill/spell that is based off Wisdom.
CON - this is how healthy a person is. It reflects how alcohol (or poison) would affect the person along with a lot of other things. This is also where you would get bonuses to your HP because of how your health is - both when you level and has as regeneration.
CHA - The only benefit I've ever seen to CHA is that of trade. Buying lower in shops and selling higher. Though, could give bonuses to any skill that has CHA as a based stat - perhaps charm spell or possibly even interrogation (if you interrogate that way, that is).
What are other peoples ideas on the basic stats? Like them how they are, or should the be different? Give examples.
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Good post. I agree with most of it except wisdom, with skill trees we will no longer get better at a skill or spell through use. I would support removing charisma, but I know it's used in some quests. I'd like to see Anubis opinion on this.
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Cha is still used for spells. And since spells are going to be in the skill trees I don't see a valid reason for it being removed.
Prometheus
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Could make wisdom for spells seeing as otherwise wisdom won't be much good.
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(This is not about PWipe at all anymore.. It is also straight off the top of my head with no real thought behind it, so please feel free to point out any crazy absurdities you can see in this)
CONstitution:
Increases the max health gained when you level and health regeneration rate.
For fighters and rogues it increases the damage of their weapons.
Constitution should not affect damage. I'm also iffy about whether constitution should affect health gains.. If in a new 100 level system constitution affects health gains, I have a feeling it will lead to 'health eq' people put on quickly when they level up, and 'fighting eq' people wear whilst levelling.
CHArisma:
Increases your minimum magic damage, extends the duration of spells, lowers
cost of items in shops and increases max health gained when leveling.
I dislike charisma overall and think it should be removed. I think it's only like 1 quest in the game that would be effected.
DEXterity:
Increases attack rating and speed and armor class, lets you carry more items.
Dex is also good for thief skills, like picking locks and backstabbing.
Dexterity should not alter items carried, as Kvetch said it should alter evasion and most skill damage for things like backstab as well as increasing damage done by short weapons. Speed will be in skill trees.
INTelligence:
Greater gain from practice sessions and gives you more mana when you level.
Increased the chance of becoming better at a skill/spell through practice.
Is the primary affect for increasing damage of all attack spells.
With skill trees there won't be greater or smaller gains from practice sessions, and it won't be possible for skills or spells to improve through use. Should have a bigger affect on attack spells.
STRength:
Adds to your max carriable weight and your speed.
For fighters and rogues it increases the damage of their weapons.
Seems pretty good. Strength should have a greater affect on weapon damage for long weapons and skills like cleave.
WISdom:
Gets you more practice sessionsand mana when you level and adds to magic
damage. Increases the chance of becoming better at a skill/spell through
practice.
Wisdom will be exactly the same as intelligence with skill trees if they are not altered at all. I would support removing wisdom altogether as well.
Would leave us with: strength, intelligence, constitution and dexterity with primarily strength being good for anyone wanting to do a lot of damage with larger weapons, intelligence being good for casting, constitution being good for HP gains and anyone that wanted to be a tank or good defender, and dexterity being good for doing a lot of damage with smaller weapons.
This is completely off the top of my head, so there could be plenty of flaws in my thinking.
I also think we should remove caps on stats and add a cap to the total amount of stats one player can attain instead. So if someone really wanted to they could get say 50 strength and 0 of any other stats. Actually it should probably be necessary for characters to have at least say, 5 in every stat. This would require stricter equipment guidelines though, with a max number of an individual stat any item could have (5 probably), as well as a max number of stats any item can have (5 probably).
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Also thinking wisdom and intelligence could be differentiated based on aggressive or protective spells possibly. One giving more damage and better affects to aggressive spells, one giving stronger and longer lasting defensive spells. Would work with different build casters.
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From another game:
Strength slightly affects HP gain, minorly affects certain attacks for accuracy, and is the damage stat for most weapon skills
Constitution effects HP more than Strength, helps you resist diseases and sickness
Dexterity affects accuracy and evasion the most out of all stats
Agiltiy affects your base speed, and your ability to dodge projectile attacks
Perception affects the damage for most projectile base attacks and some minor speed and ranged defense boost, also boost spell accuracy slightly
Intelligence gives a small mana boost, and is the the main accuracy stat for most spells, and affects spell defense a little
Willpower gives a large mana boost, affects damage for spells the most, and affects defenses against enemy spells and social-based attacks
Charisma mostly affects your accuracy with social-based attacks, some defense against the same type of attack, minor defense against diseases and sickness, and healing
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Food for thought. I think my earlier post cutting down to 4 stats is a bad idea. The less stats we have the less room we have to balance the game and 4d has a heck of a lot of quests and equipment out there and it would be silly to make all of it more similar than it is already (although adding +skill rank as a stat will give some diversity too). More stats means a more complex system and if it's balanced in a good and controlled way it's great.
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I am rambling here and it's mainly the result of sitting at recall talking to Once and Hayato, and I'm not entirely sure why I'm posting in this thread but eh..
I think if we break it down into the potential subclasses we have it will be easier to consider what stats we should have:
1. Offensive caster (casts offensive spells obviously, is more about doing lots of damage and killing mobs before they can do damage back because they probably have weak defense or resistance)
2. Defensive caster (guess what defensive caster does.. the opposite)
3. Assassin (strangle, poison, short weapons)
4. Ninja (martial arts)
5. Bard (sing battle songs)
6. Merchant (woodsing, tinker)
5. Heavy set warrior (gimli)
6. Lighter warrior (aragorn)
We'll also have large/long weapons, small/short weapons and ranged weapons. Assassin will likely use daggers and short weapons, ninja's could use ranged throwing stars, etc. Stats should take into account all of these types of build and the others I've forgotten.
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Good discussion, keep it going! :)
I won't comment specifically on anything except to defend the so much despised CHA a bit.
1. Like someone already said; removing cha would mean removing one variable, which would lead to less variety.
2. To me it's in a way logic that cha should be beneficial to magicians, because to me magicians are partlly tricksters.
So try to regard high cha, not as how beautiful and attractive you are, but how well you are able to con people (no pun intended). Another word for magician actually is conjurer or illusionist.
3. Cha is actually used in several quests, again in an attempt to add some variation, so that the quest isn't always the same to every player.
4. And naturally cha should affect how successful you are in charming mobs or bartering with them.
As someone also said, don't expect a mud to be fully logic. After all, we are dealing with magic, dragons and vampires here. Within it's very twisted world however, we should at least try to be consistant. That's not the same of being logic.
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Some mud use cha for how many people can follow them... it's just really like a charisma factor the prettier you are the more people that want to "follow" you. but cha shouldn't affect spells wis/int should. so really all stats should cap at 22.
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There are only actually 2 quests in the game that use charisma, but I actually agree. More stats is better than less stats I think.
Just waiting for Anubis to post his thoughts.
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Going on from what Viri said re classes..
Id like some more magey type classes, instead of just offensive and defensive.
Like, a straight deadset mage, Lunar Mage or something, strong attack spells, weaker on defenses han melee classes.
Some kind of 'warrior mage', a mixture of attack spells and melee abilities.
You could also choose which type of mage path you take. Arcane, Ethereal, etc. The elements.. fire, air, water, earth.
PVP system would involve: parry, dodge, and then a range of actual abilities. Spell casting (In theory you should prepare a spell (say, takes 3 seconds) then target your target, even have the ability to target a specific body type, and cast it.
This would mean subskills would need to be trained up. Target ability for one as an example.
Also other subskills for non-specific classes..
IE: Hiding, sneaking, perception, stealing.
One could train up their hiding/sneaking/stealing. All classes would be able to do these things, however not as well as a thief/assassin class. However all can train up their perception, and if Player X's perception is higher than Player Z's hiding/sneaking/stealing, then they would be caught out in their attempts to do those things. The larger the gap between skills, the higher success. IE: If someone's hiding is rank 10, and if theyre trying to hide in the same room as someone who has a perception level of 80, that person is guaranteed to spot the person hiding. Other players in the room that have a lower perception, say 10, 15, 20, would not see that player hide at all.
Same applies for attempts of sneaking and stealing.
Furthermore, training. I'd love to see trainers removed, and replaced by physical aspects of training subskills. IE: Perception could be trained a number of ways, not only through use (IE catching someone hiding/sneaking/stealing), but also through things like Juggling. You could start off training juggling two balls. As your perception rank increases, you can move onto three balls, four balls, five balls. Etc etc. Also invent other/higher ways of ranking up your perception.
Hiding could be trained by hiding in a room full of people, hiding infront of mobs, etc. Same as sneaking.
Spells could not only be trained through use, but also through study, like spell books.
To actually level up, I also propose the idea of having a subskill rank requirement to level up. Example: To get to level 3, and you are say.. an assassin. Your requirement is to have at least rank 5 of hiding, rank 7 of sneaking, rank 3 of stealing, rank 4 of Backstab. (Whatever, just an example).
As for base stats, strength, wisdom, etc, these could be trained at trainers, or given a more "Realistic" feel. IE: Every time to you level up, you get say.. I dont know.. 5 points to improve skills of your choice, and you decide where you spend them. So, say you level up. Your current stats are:
Strength: 3
Wisdom: 2
intelligence: 5
Dexterity: 3
Agility: 4
Charisma: 2
You now have 5 points to spend this level to upgrade your stats.
So, to go TRAIN your strength, you would go somewhere like a weight training room. To improve your Wisdom, you could go to some kind of university or college and train it there. To improve your Agility, you could train youself in some kind of Mud pit or something that's difficult to move in to push yourself there. Etc etc...
I have always been a fan of never limiting myself to one class. IE, just because I'm a mage doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to pick locks or hide or sneak or steal. It just means I'll have to work a lot harder and train a lot longer than a thief-type class. As an example, say there's a locked door. A thief with level 10 lockpicking might be able to easily pick it. But a mage or warrior class will have a lot more trouble and may expect to get their rank to level 20 or 30 before they can do it with a tad more ease.
Same goes for other subskills, stealing success rate, hiding success rate, etc. The only thing that should be limited per class is things like spells. "Warrior mages" should get limited spells (and again, I suggest a particular path, arcane etc etc). Lunar Mages Would get the whole spell set and that would be their entire path.
I also propose that you can only learn certain skills at certain levels, or even certain stat requirements. IE: To be able to learn the Hiding skill, you need to be level 10 and have stats of: Dexterity: 12, Agility: 15. And you could even add subskills into that. Like to learn Stealing, you would need hiding rank 20, perception rank 14, level requirement: 15.
There definitely does need to be a mixed warrior/magey type though. Else Ill cry. I can't stand being pigeon holed into one exact class where I'm only able to do a certain set of skills.
Also, instead of Merchant, I propose a Ranger type class, that can also make armors through tanning and skinning hides (tanning and skinning would be subskills, that would effect the quality of the hide produced from those skills, and therefor, the quality of the armor). The better the hide, the better the armor. BUT, then this goes to challenge the equipment basics out there... soooo... I don't know how thatd work. But ranger could also do the tinkering and whatnot I believe.
Okay. Thats enough for now. Just got sparked up by conversations in the MUD. You get the idea...
PS: Wisdom should be magic accuracy and magic registance. IE, the higher your wisdom is, the higher chance you have of targeting a person with your spell successfully, or targeting a body part. If their wisdom is far higher than yours, they have a higher chance of resisting your spells, targeted or not.
Intelligence is magic damage and increased Mana. That's self explanatory.
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Good discussion, keep it going! :)
I won't comment specifically on anything except to defend the so much despised CHA a bit.
1. Like someone already said; removing cha would mean removing one variable, which would lead to less variety.
2. To me it's in a way logic that cha should be beneficial to magicians, because to me magicians are partlly tricksters.
So try to regard high cha, not as how beautiful and attractive you are, but how well you are able to con people (no pun intended). Another word for magician actually is conjurer or illusionist.
3. Cha is actually used in several quests, again in an attempt to add some variation, so that the quest isn't always the same to every player.
4. And naturally cha should affect how successful you are in charming mobs or bartering with them.
As someone also said, don't expect a mud to be fully logic. After all, we are dealing with magic, dragons and vampires here. Within it's very twisted world however, we should at least try to be consistant. That's not the same of being logic.
Disagree with pretty much every point..
1. Impossible. We have no variety right now. I don't see how you can get into negative variety? I never suggested removing cha, just stopping it affecting the power of spells and raising hp like it does now, and developing its own use into the mud. See Riley's suggestion. I have others.
2. To me and 99% of people it is illogical that how pretty you are affects the strength of a fireball. Or your abiltiy to absorb damage before you die. Yes, those are synonyms of magician, but that is because we do not have real magic, so it is an illusion. 4D has real magic, it is NO illusion. :P
3. I see no reason why this is a problem. Unless of course some quests are only available if you have enough charisma... which is a horrendus quest design and should be fixed anyway.
4. How pretty you are should affect your interactions with sentient beings only, How does being good looking stop a bear from mauling you again? Charm is a spell, so should require spell ability no?
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CHA doesn't = how pretty you are. In the old D&D, that is basically what it stood for, but I think even in AD&D they were moving away from that concept, though they do still consider "how pretty you are" to be *part* of the score. So, I'm going to give you two sources.
1) Merriem-Webster Online dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/
charisma
One entry found.
Main Entry: cha·ris·ma
Pronunciation: \kə-ˈriz-mə\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, favor, gift, from charizesthai to favor, from charis grace; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice — more at yearn
Date: 1930
1 : a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (as a political leader)
2 : a special magnetic charm or appeal <the charisma of a popular actor>
2) Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook Core Rulebook 1 v.3.5
Charisma(CHA)
Charisma measurs a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead.
So, you can have a pretty ugly thief, but they could still have a pretty high charisma if they are a great smooth-talker. You can have a knocked around fighter that doesn't look "pretty" because of all his scars, but could still have a high charisma because of their ability to take charge and lead. So, "how pretty you are" is only about 1/5 of the score - not even close to the same thing.
How does having a high charisma stop you from being beat up by the bear? By the personality, the persuasiveness (even if you don't speak the same language, you may be able to be persuasive by how you approach the matter), personal magnetism (maybe the bear senses that you aren't like all the other "pink things" he's gone after and should be treated with a bit more respect). Just the way you carry yourself relays a lot to animals.
So, can we all stop thinking of Charisma as "how pretty you are"?
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Just cause you've got low charisma. :-*
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A good example of charisma - why do you think hot young chicks get so enamoured by their teachers or professors? Most of those guys are fugly as, but its because of their aura (whether its due to their intellect or their power or whatever), and it is this aura that is essentially measured by charisma. Napoleon was a short fat man, and yet, men would follow him to the end of the world.
So charisma is a measurement of a person's effect on others, and whether that effect is from their position, their power, charm, personality or looks. The reasoning is not important, its the effect that is important.
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That definition still does not have any rational connection to how powerful your fireball is, nor why you have more hitpoints.
Or why an animal would be affected by that, unless it is some magical effect.
Oh wait, charm is a magic spell, isn't it. ::)
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I don't think Anubis was arguing for charisma affecting spell power.. Just giving an example of what it is.
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I beg to differ. A fugly gnoll, troll, orc, and ogre same level as a human...would still have more hp because HP reflects how well body can absorb damage, staunch bleeding, and so on. In table top there is no way to truly count for continuous bleeding so HP was created to reflect bodily damage and blood loss already being factored. At one point the characters would blackout. Remember where these stat systems come from.
CHA is used for persuasion, bluffing, and so on. It has never had (as far as I can remember) any part in factoring ones health, mental, physical prowess. It is a stat of Hotness, coolness, and slyness. Britnoth is right (I can't believe I agreed with him).
try to always remember WHERE these systems came from, and how each stat was intended.
I think CHA should be a stat that improves charming, taming, and summoning spells/abilities. I also think that CHA should be used more in quests for bluff checks, bribery (we like never bribe at all anymore) and so on. Should also use it for bartering skills.
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Okay, just in case this thread leads everyone off on a merry goose chase, I will get it back onto the Yellow Brick Road.
Stats will be a factor in every single skill/spell in the game. If there are two co-primary stats, their effects will be evenly divided between the two stats. If there is one primary and one secondary, then obviously the primary stat has greater effect whilst the secondary stat will contribute in a lesser amount.
Some examples below, I wont try to write up a proper description of each skill, instead, I will just write what their game purposes are:-
PS - Primary Stat
SS - Secondary Stat
Acrobatics - increases evasion
PS - dexterity
Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning Proficiency - increases accuracy or hit chance of a type of weapon
PS - str
SS- dex
Backstab/encircle - find new ways to make your co-worker look bad in front of your boss...oh wait, wrong backstab
PS - dex
SS - int (yes, you need to know the right pressure points to pierce a vulnerable spot for greater damage)
Momma's Lullaby - ok, ok, the name will change, but it is a bard's song that increases the heal rates of sleeping characters
PS - cha (oh look, charisma!!!), con
By the way, all bard's songs will have two primary stats, one of them will always be charisma, so its quite important for bard type characters to have good charisma, but each song will have a different other primary stat.
Archery - increase accuracy of bows
PS - dex
Arrows Hurty Hurty - increase the damage multiplier of bows
PS - str
Perception - chance to see sneaking/hiding characters
PS - wis, int
Holy Word (spell) - four letter cuss words that cause shock to players, as well as damage
PS - wis
All mage spells will have int as their main PS, and some spheres may have another PS or SS. For example, nature based spells like meteor swarm will require wis, illusion based spells require cha, on top of the int.
Similarly, all priest spells will have wis as their main PS, and some spheres may have another PS or SS.
As a basic outline, although this isnt a hard and fast rule, two PS means the two stats have a 50/50 effect on the skill, one PS and one SS means a 66/33 effect, although this may vary when it comes to PS and SS. I want to overcomplicate things because its boring if it isnt.
This is just a brief example of what the new skill tree system will entail. These stats will add significant effects to each skill, virtually adding a few extra skill ranks over and above your normal ranks.
Although I will try my best to make each PS/SS make sense in terms of their relevance to the skills/spells, there may be some skills/spells that have odd stats that dont make sense. This is done to ensure there is a good spread of stats required, so if you want to nitpick on anything, just send me a nit shampoo/lotion and I will wash my hair myself :)
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Sounds awesome. Lookin' forward to it.
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can we get rid of the coolness stat? 8)
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You're just jealous I'm cooler than you.
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can we get rid of the coolness stat? 8)
At present, coolness is the most underused stat in the game, probably because it doesn't do anything, except that it could potentially be used in quests. (The only example of this that I actually know about is in a zone, made by Exodus, which never got finished and consequently isn't in the gameport).
However, that doesn't mean that coolness is useless. There was a thought behind it, when Mordecai implemented it, and even if it never got finished, that thought is still valid. Like any other stat it could be utilised to add some variety to the game, especially if Anubis ever gets around to implementing Mob AI (Artificial Intelligence).
Coolness equals what in some games is known as Reputation, i.e. the status of a person in the eyes of others. It is different from Cha in the way that it also has a strong element of fear.
Coolness could be affected by your Kills-versus-Deaths factor, and also by your status on the PK ladder, (although it wouldn't effectively affect PK much, just mob interaction).
The coolness factor could also be raised by having succeeded in some prestigious achievement, like killing a very tough Boss mob, finishing a hard quest, finding a rare item, getting into a hard-to-reach area, or some other major exploring/questing based deed.
We could even have a coolness ladder in the game, just like a PK ladder. :)
Some examples of how coolness could be used in the gameplay:
1. Since coolness instigates respect and fear, it could be used in all fear-based spells, (like psi-panic, heartsqueeze, nightmare etc.), increasing the effect, if the cool factor is high.
2. A high cool factor could make the weaker mobs in an area fear you, while the stronger, who'd see you as an equal, would respect you. The effect would generally be that an otherwise aggressive mob would be reluctant to attack a player with high coolness, perhaps choosing to let them pass by instead. (In a way similar to sneaking and invisibility). Or it could make a mob more prone to start a conversation, to start trading with you, or to give you a better deal.
3. One thing that I've always wanted in the game is a feature called Mercy. Basically it would mean that when you are fighting certain intelligent mobs, and get them down to a certain point, they could beg for mercy, which would stop the fight flow for a second or two. The player would then have to decide whether to spare the mob's life or not.
If they choose to grant the mercy, the reward might be just that the victor gets almost the same amount of exp as if they had actually killed the mob, but without having to spend all the time actually doing it. Or in some cases, the mob could trade his life against some piece of equipment. It could also put the mob in your debt, for future use. Or in yet other cases, it would make the mob follow you, which could then be used in quests.
Mercy could actually be used in the opposite way too. If you feel you are losing a battle, you could ask the mob for mercy. The mob would then demand some piece of your equipment, (probably random choice), to let you go.
Granting someone mercy would obviously be very cool, and add to your coolness factor, begging for mercy would have the opposite effect.
I haven't seen Mercy implemented in any Mud. Originality is usually a good thing.
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All seems really cool but I think it'd suit a more in depth alignment system to be honest.
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its different then align some you can be cool and evil and get away with alot more and good and lame you know?
also you should have a lame score maybe?
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I like the idea of mercy, but maybe (instead of being related to alignment) just let the players choose (if they want to) to never show mercy or to always show mercy. Basically the idea is, if you're going to always kill the mob, there's no reason for the game to even give you a choice - all it does is slow down combat. If you're always going to show mercy - same thing just giving the offer will slow the combat down. The choice would be presented though for those that don't choose one way or the other. Also, this should be a changable flag so if you're fighting a mob that you may want to show mercy too even if you normall don't show mercy, you can go back to being neutral on it.
As for coolness, I seem to remember Mord saying "Don't put this on any objects". Or something. I assumed there was a big plan for it so truthfully never even considered where I could use it. I like what Molly presented for possible uses for coolness.
Kvetch
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What would happen to a mob you gave mercy too? If I go with a friend and one of us always gives mercy and the other never does, and the one that never does just follows the one that does, do we double the normal exp we'd get from the mob?
I really like the idea of mercy, it'd also be a way of opening double paths in quests. I just think having it completely disconnected from alignment would be weird. A really evil player always giving mercy to mobs and not having his alignment affected just because it suits him better that way.
Reputation is a really cool idea though, like in Fable, the more reputation you have the more people respond to you in either positive or negative ways depending on your alignment.
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What would happen to a mob you gave mercy too? If I go with a friend and one of us always gives mercy and the other never does, and the one that never does just follows the one that does, do we double the normal exp we'd get from the mob?
My answer to this would be no only because, since your friend never gives mercy he's gonna kill the mob no matter what your sorry little butt wants. I had a roleplaying session like that once. Poor guy never knew what hit him after he stabbed that surrendering kobold in the heart. Suddenly his intellegent magic weapon became as heavy as lead. Oh, wait, you don't care about that. nvm.
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No but I mean, if I go through a zone and give mercy to all the mobs and get slightly less exp for doing slightly less work as Molly said, and my friend goes through finishing them off.. Does he get full exp for killing them afterwards or could it be coded so he gets the remainder of the exp I essentially left with the mob by giving it mercy.
Same kinda thing applies with if I just kill all the mobs I give mercy to directly afterwards.
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No but I mean, if I go through a zone and give mercy to all the mobs and get slightly less exp for doing slightly less work as Molly said, and my friend goes through finishing them off.. Does he get full exp for killing them afterwards or could it be coded so he gets the remainder of the exp I essentially left with the mob by giving it mercy.
Same kinda thing applies with if I just kill all the mobs I give mercy to directly afterwards.
Viri, baby, I am not quite as naive as that. :P
I know some of you guys would abuse the heck out of any feature, if given half the chance, so naturally the mob will go and purge itself discreetly, right after expressing its undying gratitude. Unless the mercy were part of a quest, in which case killing it directly after you gave it mercy would be just stupid, since it would ruin the quest for you.
I don't think mercy should be align based. There are perfectly valid reasons why a totally evil person could choose to give someone mercy, based on a grander all-evil scheme.
I don't think you should make an all-or-nothing choice either. Again it would be perfectly logical to spare the life of one mob, but not another. So the choice should be made each time.
Of course, not all mobs would cry for mercy. This would be based on a mobflag added in OLC.
As for the delay in the fight, I would have thought that to be the part of the feature that you'd like best. After battling a mob for quite some time, you'd get a 1-2 second's delay, in which you'd get time to spell up, in case you don't choose to spare the mob's life. The poor mob wouldn't get the same chance, so it's a win-win situation for the player.
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So you're going to beat the hell out of something, and then let it live as a bloody pulp of the being it used to be, then call that mercy? Haha, goodness. I get it to some extent, as Kitolani doesn't kill baby buffalo or kids, but she doesn't attack them either. If it's going to affect your align in a way that is detrimental, can't we instead allocate more exp to trading so that we have more options than just grinding mobs? :-\
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I would like to see more experience for quests and trading, rather than just 50k here and there.
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I would like to see more experience for quests and trading, rather than just 50k here and there.
Second.that.
Exp.rewards.worth.noticing.o/