4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Jaros on September 13, 2011, 09:46:28 pm
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Immortals are great and totally necessary but in an ideal world the game would run itself and we wouldn't need them. To that end, I think we should open up more things to in-game manipulation.
One reward worth earning that doesn't make anyone physically stronger would be the ability to pay for and build things in the game. Things like houses, clan-halls and perzes could all be coded such that players can expand and customize them on their own. The fact that we can do this at all is a massive strength of text-based gaming, so why not make it easier? Why not lower the cost of things like plain rooms and mobs and stat-less objects, none of which imbalance the game but all of which could add character to the world and get more players involved.
Make it possible to add scripts to certain things in game, for a price, once you've earned the right, whatever. We could be collaborating on in game 'sandbox' zones, adding ever more interesting dialogue to certain mobs, things like that. It could be great.
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I suggested on an earlier thread on a item restring machine. You bring the item, any item, and you can restring the item by doing a special command phrase like... restring gauntlet some bloody knuckles
That would string your gauntlet item to look like some bloody knuckles.
This would give the players the ability to restring any item, even non perzables, and have a completely unique set of eq to fit their RP. Don't have to see every melee person out there with an Achilles' Heel anymore because it's non perzable. You see them with socks, or shoes, or boots, or mittens on their feet.
This of course would also make the imms jobs a lot easier because they wouldnt have to always have to do stuff for the players, they may be needed for perzes themselves, scripts and rooms for now, but restrings, could be a thing of the past for them.
Thoughts?
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Minecraft is popular because it is possible to alter the game itself.
4d should also create a 'dreaming' feature, (Once will know what I'm talking about) and allow players to code mini-zones that pop in and out of existence.
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Minecraft is popular because it is possible to alter the game itself.
Exactly. Minecraft pretty much has lego graphics and all you do is run around building whatever you want. It's massively popular.
I suggested on an earlier thread on a item restring machine.
I like it. :D
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The difference between Minecraft and a text mud is that Minecraft does have lego graphics.
A text Mud hasn't, and until now 4D has always taken pride in zones that are well built and relatively free from typos.
Allowing anyone to add extra rooms and objects to the gameport means that we'd be dependant of the writing skills of those who design these things.
And after over ten years if seeing what horrible pieces of 'building' some people produce in the Buildport, I am very reluctant to let this loose in the Gameport, in plain view of everybody. And I am not just talking of things like obscenities and garish colours now, but of bad English, typos, lack of grammar, and usually lack of punctuation too. You have to see it to believe it.
Sure, if anyone can code the text equivalent to the lego blocks that Minecraft has, I'm all for letting people play with them. But I very much doubt that will be possible, plus that it would hamper the creativity you are aiming for.
It's a nice idea, but it just won't work. Believe me, building is not as easy as many seem to think. It's also very time consuming. There is a reason why so many of the zones in the buildport never get finished.
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So what about small steps? Things like Xeriuth's restring machine? Restricted sandbox areas that we can build in / customize?
There is obviously value in our amazingly built world, no one's trying to risk that.
There's also value in amateur, social things. If it's obviously a sandbox, no one will care if there are mistakes all through it. There will be people though who appreciate the ideas and the character it develops and the chance to get involved without having to commit to 100 complete, well-written rooms, because you're right, that is a massive undertaking.
So, restricted spaces for this kind of thing? Restring machines? Perz machines?
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To be honest the spaces are already there: houses. Surely it would be possible to grant restricted OLC to those on a house-list that only functions Between Time & Space?
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damn not sure i can buuuu this.... >:(
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Yeah making it a dream feature would require endorsing the building as a mud which we couldn't do.
But as a sandbox it could be quite fun if it was clearly SIGNED: "You are now entering seriously warped space time, you are losing contact with 4dimensions - any further venturing could prove harmful in more ways than on."
I actually love the idea of building block pieces for zones:
Imagine if there was a type 'forest', 'ocean', 'plain', 'scary room', 'plain room', or some shit like that that were just pre-constructed 1 room pieces of zone that it was possible for players to adjust the links for, essentially making mini- 'create-your-own' mazes of say 10 or 20 rooms that they didn't actually build, just put together. Not sure exactly what we'd get out of it but I'm sure we could make it fun. :P
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To be honest the spaces are already there: houses. Surely it would be possible to grant restricted OLC to those on a house-list that only functions Between Time & Space?
I guess I could live with restricted OLC access to add new rooms inside a private house, i.e. rooms that couldn't be accessed without special invitation.
I could live with rooms and possibly mobs being added in a 'sandbox' too, as long as it was set as !teleport and had a warning sign at the entrance about desc quality.
But objects is a totally different matter, unless someone could code in a restriction against them being taken anywhere in the mud. I wouldn't like 4D turning into something that looks as a DragonballZ mud. And I'm even a bit reluctant about mobs, because I know that at least some players would abuse this liberty by making easy-to-kill mobs and then use these for fast levelling. It has happened in the past, and that's not what the game is supposed to be about.
The sandbox idea has merits, even though I think the players would tire of it very fast, because building is really rather tedious work. However, at the time when I was still hoping that Crafting skills would be implemented, the top skill for Woodworkers was Shipbuilder - i.e. to build vehicles. And for Stoneworker the top skill was Constructor, which would give them restricted access to OLC, so that they could build player Houses in a walled in zone with building plots that we would provide. These houses would not be crashproof, but there would be a skill called Cabinetmaker, where players could make the equivalent to our crashproof lockers.
And it would also be quite possible to let players build their own mini dungeons or arenas in the sandbox area, without needing to write any descs at all, unless they chose to. Because we actually have the equivalent of the Minecraft lego blocks in our Wilderness code. A room that is set with a Wilderness flag gets an auto-generated description, based on the sector of the room. And until you exchange that default desc for something new, that is what everyone entering the room will see. So, repetitive descs, and just two lines, (but at least two lines without typo, grammar and punctuation errors). And it allows for quick building.
Also, with the help of KaVir's new client app, (which is still under development), we now also have access to graphic sidebar maps, which look pretty nice, and make orienting in the game a lot easier, which is good both for exploring amd Pkilling.
The enclosed screenshot shows a part of the Ancient Greece map in the right side window, while using KaVir's GUI in my own MUSHclient. The circle indicates my own position on the map, and each square on the map represents one room, i.e. one map tile or lego block.
The in-game equivalent map is displayed on the Game screen, for comparison.
At least for me this is an enormous improvement, because you always have the map at the side to help with the orientation, and you can use the arrows on the number pad to move around easily.
(In case someone wonders, the small icons under the Avatar to the left indicate that I have a spell cast on me, and the digits on the icons show the remaining duration time, which slowly ticks down until effect ends and the icons disappear. There are of course lots of other features you can add to the client, but for this subject the maps are what counts. I'll post more info about the client app and how to download it in another post, just thought I'd mention it here).
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1695/maplaconia.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1695/maplaconia.jpg)
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Does no one like my idea for a restring machine?
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Xeriuth's idea of a restring machine sounds interesting to me.
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I agree with Xeriuth's idea for restring. Just cause I'm a girl... doesn't mean I want to look like all the other girls.... or caster guys... that doesn't have gender restrictions on the gear. And you guys want to promote RPing with allowing us to buy statless gear? Not many people really want to run around in statless gear to RP especially if they are PK. It's like for an example that will never happen... Jason is running around in his RP gear with his other gear still on him, gets axed, and has to start all over. Why can't he just be wearing his super awesome equipment and deal with the PK punkass right than and kill him while still in his RP gear.
I know it's something that will have to be monitored so people aren't running around with like somone's V... on their face but think it's safe to say that on the mortal side that the code can block some words from being used in the restrings short name. You will just have to compile a blacklist for unusable words, which wouldn't really be that long of a list imho. Swear words, some anatomy parts, and perhaps a few words if used together/back to back.
But over all would really help out Role-playing and character uniqueness, which above all is drastically lacking in most games.
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If people are worried about abuse. Then simply can add a lock to it, a way for hero's or imms to blacklist people who abuse the machine. Just have a list of set rules of do's and don'ts and if people want to overstep their bounds the their loss. Also can make it so it's only available after 1st Remort. So people don't just make level 1 alts to use it.
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If a builder could answer this it would be helpful. Aren't perzs and some restrings done using other vnums than the object that is changed? Or am I missing something? (coder here not builder lol)
The restring machine isn't too bad of an idea but we would need controls and Xeriuth suggested Hero / Immortal overview could work. And depending on how restrings / Perzs work in 4d.
Prometheus
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In a previous forum thread on this subject, Restring of statted Equip, from back in May;
The reason why is because restring just changes the way that one item that YOU carry looks (I don't know how it's coded to do it, my brain doesn't comprehend it) while keeping the same vnum. A perz is actually a whole new vnum. Which is why we can't reload restrings - that item is gone - while we can perz's.
I don't know if this helps any.
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I'm not certain if imm commands can be used in scripts but, the command to restring an item is this... string object short <what you want it to look like>
So to restring your Achilles heel you'd type string object heel some old worn out running shoes
This would make your Achilles heel look like some old worn out running shoes.
Again, not certain or how this command can be used in scripts but I actually have an idea...
Maybe have a mob. Mob is set to imm level to do restrings does string command and then returns to normal level? I'll play with it after my test tomorrow. Back to studying..
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Making a player driven restring command from a technical perspective isn't really challenging. This is more a cultural/political challenge. Do we want players to have the ability to make their own restrings? Or, do we want imms to focus as a sort of "Content Police" and maintain a certain level of standards to restrings whether it be for vulgarity, or colors, etc?
One method I've used in the past to handle colors was making each use of a color code increase the cost a certain amount to a point where something horridly ugly would cost a pretty penny. We could also remove colors from restring altogether. But if someone wants to make the dildo of power, should they be allowed to?
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Please. Immortal supervision has never stopped eye-raping perzes in the past.
Dildo of Power? If that's really what someone wants then who really cares? Has anyone been to Mother Goose recently?
The notion that we should somehow be censoring things to try to protect 4D's cute little PG image is a joke. Just don't look at people if you don't like it.
I wouldn't like 4D turning into something that looks as a DragonballZ mud.
Hey! You leave DBZ out of this.
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The notion that we should somehow be censoring things to try to protect 4D's cute little PG image is a joke. Just don't look at people if you don't like it.
From the MOTD:
"DISCLAIMER: Some of the zones in this mud contain certain things that can be described as 'adult', and the language on the open channels is sometimes a bit free too. So if you are very young, very sensitive or very prudish; maybe you should find yourself another mud to play? :-)"
So I don't think 4d ever was rated PG... maybe R... but not XXX. So yeah..
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Ok, I'm going to try to put in my 2 cents, seeing as I"m the one that tends to deal with restrings (at least it feels that way to me, maybe someone else does them when I'm not looking). I'm all for players being able to restring their own items, but I also wouldn't mind it printing to a file like the bug and typo files. That way someone (more than likely me) could look up what restrings had been done and if one isn't "kosher" to be running around 4D, I could 1) find the item and destroy it (yep, without any notice - though I do tend to leave notes when I do things like that), 2) hunt down the player and make them give it up (and explain why). Though, quite often a promise to not have said item anywhere other than a player's house or personal area could be enough to keep it in (though if it's ever found outside of said place, it becomes fair game).
Tradepoints (not sure if this is the same thread or not, but here it is): Why not let players trade them like gold? We're basically using them as another currency, like gold, and tokens, both of which can be traded.
Houses (pretty sure this isn't the same thread, but here it is): I would love to be able to have players build their own house and then pay to build "furniture" for the house if they choose to have it. If there was any way to make it so players could access the ability to build: furniture (for things to sit on) or trash (for anything else), I would have no problem letting them pay X tokens for each room and then X gold to furnish it. Of course, unless every room was crashproof, the items would still have to be zedited in so it'd load in said room.
Kvetch
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If people are worried about abuse. Then simply can add a lock to it, a way for hero's or imms to blacklist people who abuse the machine.
We still have heros? Why?
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On another note, I like the restring machine. Then i won't have to change my shoelaces myself...
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The notion that we should somehow be censoring things to try to protect 4D's cute little PG image is a joke. Just don't look at people if you don't like it.
So if someone ran around with an object called 'Jaros' minute dick' around their neck, that wouldn't bother you at all?
Well, it would bother me. Because sooner or later someone would make an object with the name of someone who WOULD be bothered. And then that other person would run to me to whine about it.
Believe me, that's how it works.
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I would inform them that the possessive apostrophe still requires an 's' after it unless the possessor is a plural. Believe me, I've made the same mistake.
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I'd just like to reiterate the original point of this post, which was that in general, PEOPLE REALLY LIKE CUSTOMIZING THINGS.
Why do people perz things?
Why do people build unnecessarily large houses?
Why do people invest months, sometimes years into building huge and complex zones?
Because people like expressing themselves and leaving a mark on the world, even if it's just the 4D world. That's also why people care about the Hall of Fame statues.
The easier we can make it for people to create things the more popular this game will be. It already has an advantage in that it's text-based, so basically if you can read and write you already have the skills to make anything you want.
I'm not saying we should compromise all our beautifully built zones, but we can do other things.
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This would give the players the ability to restring any item, even non perzables, and have a completely unique set of eq to fit their RP. Don't have to see every melee person out there with an Achilles' Heel anymore because it's non perzable. You see them with socks, or shoes, or boots, or mittens on their feet.
aww.. I kind of like seeing male casters out there wearing dresses and belly chains and false eyelashes. Kind of adds a sense of diversity to the game. ;-)
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Can I also mention that one of the hazards of restringing (at least as an IMM) is the "ability" to restring things you don't WANT to restring. Just ask Asmodeus, I owe him a restring of a held item. Heck if I know what it was because by the time I was done, it wasn't what it was but what I'd been trying to make. Usually I catch myself earlier than that and am able to restring the old item back to what it was - or at least very close to what it was. Loria's held boquet at her wedding - compliments of Asmodeus... *hehe* It would be nice that if players got this option to do it themselves that there be a safety put in place so this didn't happen.
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On another note, I like the restring machine. Then i won't have to change my shoelaces myself...
*facepalm*
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So if someone ran around with an object called 'Jaros' minute dick' around their neck, that wouldn't bother you at all?
Well, it would bother me. Because sooner or later someone would make an object with the name of someone who WOULD be bothered. And then that other person would run to me to whine about it.
Believe me, that's how it works.
Just deal with it the same way you deal with player names. Those don't have to wait for Imm approval.