4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Jason Orsini on September 15, 2011, 02:00:14 am
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So ideas for theese two melee classes that lack one,
what could it be that suits the class? >:(
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buuu
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booo on you, come on............
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what about for gypsys Midas Punch
the punch does kick damage and slows your opponent down,
as in lowering its speed??
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How about thwack, where the gypsy grabs his mandolin and thwacks you on the head?
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Just give them both encircle. Our classes are retarded regardless.
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No more spamming skills
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should be something they have or in character of the class no?,
rangers could get an improved or boosted kick skill.
Axe-kick
Roundhouse-Kick
Double-kick
or whatever... >:(
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Once showed me this one posted on some other forum: slit, where you slit your opponent open mid-battle and they bleed out, losing HP for a duration. Sounds like a gypsy/ranger skill to me and if you just made that good enough it could make up the shortfall against encircle and behead in PK and against mobs.
Incidentally, why can we not do things like steal and blackjack in battle? That would also make up the difference.
Steal: lower chance of success if you're fighting, but as normal you steal something from their inv. This would add sweet tactics to PK like disarming someone and stealing their weapon, or just stealing their heals/bag etc.
Blackjack: low chance of putting someone to sleep mid-battle, otherwise you daze them for a few seconds, maybe they fall down like a rogue version of bash.
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i like Slit, i actually read about that while googling earlier.
good idea Jason i mean jaros
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I vote for Thwack ???
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Damn it Jason and Jaros, they are my eyes, not slits! Bastards!
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Howabout 'Poach' for Gypsies and 'Ambush' for rangers?
Both are IC for their respective class, but would essentially mean the same thing; a bullet in the back to initiate the fight, (a bit similar to backstab).
Also I'd really like to see some cool skill for Rangers that included using a bullwhip, to either damage or snare a player.
Otherwise I'm fine with 'Slit', it would be IC for both classes to produce a hidden knife in mid battle.
Granted many of our skills are similar, with just different names, but I don't see that as all negative, the atmosphere in the game is better if the skill messages make any sence.
That said, I'd like to make a request to get rid of Colour spray - i.e. change the name to something less ridiculous.
And all kidding aside, I think Jason is right about those two classes needing something more than kick as a decent battle skill.
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agreed. they need some sort of attack they can do during battle. I would love to see them get encircle later and perhaps give them kick earlier? Slit would work too, could be somewhere in between kick and encircle in terms of dmg done. Doesn't make sense that kick would be the main attack skill for later tiers and have no attack skills for the lower tiers. Might be a way of helping newbies advance quicker too, if they had some sort of attack skill that could do some dmg during some of the harder classes to get through.
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To be completely honest, my perspective is this is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titantic. We can do it, and by all means nobody let my opinion stop you. If enough players are bothered by it I'll add it myself if someone else doesn't work on it, but I think we have fundamental problems that we can attack first by restructuring the tiers in general a little bit better as a pre-cursor to some sort of skill tree system.
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Mutters about people changing their minds. I already have a skill skeleton in place for an in combat skill. I just need to put the finishing touches on it.
And I'm not going to freaking give gypsys or Rangers freaking encircle. Blah.
So let me code in what I already had planned with Molly's approval.
Prometheus
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Prom your skill, as you said yourself is just another form of bash,
made for low levels..... how does that change anything?
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Make rangers and gypsy's fightworthy, but as Once said - we're just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. As long as we make these changes with more forward thought in mind for how we can actually make fights cool without just spamming skills.
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Make rangers and gypsy's fightworthy, but as Once said - we're just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. As long as we make these changes with more forward thought in mind for how we can actually make fights cool without just spamming skills.
Yeah, but as long as the changes don't actually work against the long-term goal, why not rearrange the chairs now, so the people on Titanic at least can be comfortable, while waiting for the ship to sink - or lift?
After all, it might be a long wait before we have a new and feasible fight system in action.
So for now, just give those classes a decent fighting skill, I don't really care if it's a new one, an existing one, or an existing one with a new name..
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Mutters. Okay I'm open to a better idea. I'm still going to put in trip since I freaking coded the skeleton in already. So give me some decent suggestions. I have no objection to changing around the cleave or behead code and tweak it around for Rangers / Gypsy's. I don't really see coding in two separate skills for both Rangers or Gypsy's.
And I'm looking at short term since it seems that long term things tend to implode hard.
Prometheus.
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Slit. It's appropriate and at least a bit different to the usual spam.
You slit someone open and they bleed for a duration, losing enough HP to match that many seconds worth of encircle/behead/cleaving.
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Aslong as gypsys and rangerinos slit,
match that of thiefs encircle and hunters behead, (warriors cleave) im all game.
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Okay I will work on getting this into the game. Does anyone want modifiers for skills or spells or just a pure skill (slit) based?
And I'm guessing slit would be a t4 skill like cleave / behead?
Prometheus
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the point is that gypsys and rangers should have a BATTLE skill that,
is equal to encircle and hunters RIGHT! that is the freaky deaking point!.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Remember when you used to remort different classes so you could use their skills and spells. Good times.
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Can't have tiers for that viri
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That's the way tiers were originally intended.. Multiclassing / specializing. Remember?
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Would work well if you did away with GM and could keep your last 8 or so remorts worth. Could get interesting with that.
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go xeriuth! go xerituth!
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What a great idea! Getting rid of GM would be marvelous for gameplay.
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What about something like Garrote which could deal initial damage and periodic damage as well especially for those gypsies.
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I have a garrote. It used to be pretty shit, now it doesn't work even when I'm theif :(
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Can we please stay on topic and not rehash the GM vs no-GM old debate. I'm looking at what is up and working now. If in the future that changes fine. But I'm dealing with the here and now and not a "what-if" possibility.
Prometheus
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In related news: Why does midas touch have such a low chance of hitting? Even when I don't lose concentration my golden touch misses the target half the time. Speed doesn't even matter to the psycho beheading the fuck out of me so I should at least have a high chance of reducing it to something very small.
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I have a garrote. It used to be pretty shit, now it doesn't work even when I'm theif :(
Garrotte and throttle used to be subskills that you got from the bravo quest, and they were supposed to be thief specific.
Both skills were disabled at some point, probably because they were said to be too powerful. Allegedly garotte was insta-kill sometimes.
I'd like those skills back, because the extensive quest to get them is now pretty much useless without the reward. They should be nerfed a bit, since instakill obviously is a bit too much.
But I stll want them back. :P
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Same. Wasn't powerful verging on instakill the whole point..?
You do a series of complex quests.
You train your skill up.
You remove your weapons to wield the damn thing..
Then you have something like 6-7 rounds at least in which the thing might struggle free and attack you before you kill it.
Seems fair to me. Why must people remove interesting features just because they actually work?
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@Jaros -> Let me look at the midas touch code and see if it might be changed.
I will try to do that today maybe. Got a lot of stuff going on right now and I got some bad news so I need to calm down. So I will probably go blow things up and then do some coding. I will let you know what I find or don't find.
Prometheus
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Both skills were disabled at some point, probably because they were said to be too powerful. Allegedly garotte was insta-kill sometimes.
oh, like the call lightning spell? Yeah that one sucks. It turns the arena into a contest of who can type cast 'call lightning' the fastest.
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Call lightning is on my list of spells to fix or possibly disable till it can be fixed. Mord changed this spell around and I will see what I can figure out.
Prometheus
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Okay I got the skeleton for slit(gypsy) and thrust(Ranger) into the code. I am going to go ahead and pull trip since no one really liked the idea. I might end up disabling call lightning till it can get fixed. That will need to be discussed some more.
Prometheus
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You know I had suggested Gypsy get a new skill a while back ago and was told they didnt need it -.-. Virisin awesome response was they had trample. :)
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I still think THWACK and WHOMP would make great skill additions to gypsies and rangers.
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What would THWACK and WHOMP do?
By the way, I still want a WHIP skill for Rangers.
It should alternately hurt or snare the victim.
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@Molly
How about thwack, where the gypsy grabs his mandolin and thwacks you on the head?
Perhaps Horus should expound on the meaning of whomp.
@Horus If a stringed instrument is used shouldn't the sound include the ringing of the instrument, it is more than just a flat object.
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Im assuming the skills are just going to be temp fixes?
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Im assuming the skills are just going to be temp fixes?
If slit works the way I hope it will, it will at least be a step in a slightly different direction. Beyond that in the medium term there is a plan on the way to adjust all of the major skills pretty significantly such that they actually serve different purposes, so keep an eye on Viri's GM/action points thread. Then for the much longer term we have Horus's skill trees thread :)
Stay tuned, things going on all over the place!!
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I'm still working on this skills and some skill tree code has been put in. Now how far that gets we will have to see.
And I would hope these two skills would make it into skill trees. People need to remember that we have 4 coders who could be working on different things and we don't always talk to each other hehe.
Prometheus
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Yeah, it would be a shame for the work you've put in to be for a temporary band-aid.
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Im assuming the skills are just going to be temp fixes?
Stay tuned, things going on all over the place!!
Thats the thing that worries so many different things being talked about and seems multiple things being worked on at once. I just hope not to see multiple changes being worked on at once then get abandoned halfway through. Rather see people focus together on one thing at a time.
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Also on another note, on gypsy and their call lightning spell. Any thoughts of how its going to be changed? I really think it needs to be completely revamped. Remove the mana usage and make it use stamina/move. If you start out as fighter and move to rogue you have no mana and you can only use the spell a few times before you run out, and this was the same case before it was tampered with.
Think it should be changed into something along the lines of how kick works, to help with early leveling. Otherwise Gypsy is a long boring class to level.
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Think it should be changed into something along the lines of how kick works, to help with early leveling. Otherwise Gypsy is a long boring class to level.
That is a poor but sadly prevalent approach to fixing shitty classes.
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Lol honestly I think the same of slit and thrust :P
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Hence: http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,724.msg5001.html#msg5001
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When will there be trainers that can teach the thrust and slit skills? I'm told that at least thrust for rangers cannot be practiced.
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Unless somebody objects seriously I'm going to put some time into Gypsies tonight. I think I've got an idea on how we can make classes more interesting.
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What kind of ideas?
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Badass ones.