4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Bane on September 27, 2011, 01:10:16 pm
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Its taken me a bit longer to get the ball rolling on this thread then I anticipated but here it is. I still have more work to do on fully gathering up everything but we can at least have a thread dedicated to this and at least get the general goals discussed more thoroughly..
Some of the points I want to bring up is :
1. What kind of equipment is in the School, Quest Academy, and the 8 Newbie Zones?
2. Is this equipment well balanced for all 3 types of classes (Rogues, Fighters, and Casters) found throughout the starting areas?
3. After the school, academy, and newbie areas are newbies really ready to face the 4D world?
4. How can we better help prepare the newbies to make it easier on them to find a massive world as 4D fun and enjoyable at a lower level?
Upon starting off you are given a sub issue helmet a weapon and one special item that is fitted towards your class, a backpack and some letters with information on them.
Fighters get the red cape of the squire and a longsword
Casters get the magical glasses and no weapon.(the magical glasses needs to be changed to an about item I will bring up why further in the post.)
Rogues get the thiefs cloak and a dagger
As they continue to go down they run into another backpack that has a few more items in them :
a sub issue dagger
a sub issue vest
a sub issue helmet
a lantern
a buffalo waterskin
a letter with some information
Now there is no information in this room to tell you to pick up the backpack and get the items from the backpack. So why is it even there? Another point is why give them another helmet they already have in the first place and give them another weapon so early in the game? Which one should they use?
I personally feel this backpack just needs to be removed. We can add waterskin and the letter to items they receive when they first login.
Now they continue to the next room and Lionel is waiting for them to tell them to get items from the box, practice their first skills, and tells casters to look up manifest and orb. Now, what exactly is a caster suppose to manifest when they receive no weapon to start out with? So I personally feel that
A. They need to receive a weapon they can manifest when they first login
or
B. Have Lionel give them a weapon and walk them through the manifest.(I like this choice better)
Now moving onto the chest that is in the room with Lionel.
Inside you find :
a bear skin(an about)
a pair of deer skin trousers
a pair of deer skin moccasins
Now the trousers and moccasins I'm fine with but not the bear skin. Fighters and Rogues already start out with an about item. Why give them another one? We are forcing them to choose already when they have no idea which is better. Lets change this to the sub issue vest that is found in the backpack in the room before.
Now lets move onto the the 4dimenions of the school, They provide great information and I'm happy and content with what they provide. My only objections to these zones is what some of the zone offers as rewards for doing small quests
Prehistoric upon doing a quest you receive a great face item.
a face mask, striped in red and white is a type of armor made from base-material
It is from the dimension Old West
It can be taken and worn on TAKE FACE
Its weight is 1 and its valued at 0 coins.
If worn it will give you --
2 to your Strength
2 to your Constitution
25 to your Maxmove
AC-apply is 2
Also applies innate armor
Great item, for starting out. No complaints. We also run into a piece of flint and another pair of shoes. Once again we are wanting them to choose which is better. I think they should just be removed considering how many weapons they will run into during the school.
Now lets move onto the medieval zone. Here you learn about tiers, how to talk on all channels, how to greet people, how to; post,mail and notes, potions, pills, wands, rules, mortals and immortals. We also run across a few items id like to mention. A short sword from killing the squire and 2 quest items. A small dagger and a ring
a thin gold ring is a type of armor made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE FINGER
It is glowing
Its weight is 1 and its valued at 50 coins.
If worn it will give you --
1 to your Constitution
AC-apply is 2
a small dagger is a type of weapon made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE WIELD
It is undonateable melt-on-drop
Its weight is 3 and its valued at 50 coins.
Wanted Weapon Balance: (base)-=======0=================-(tip)
Actual Weapon Balance: (base)-=======0=================-(tip)
This balance gives the weapon 20 speed, 40 accuracy and 5 evasion.
The one handed weapon is a 35cm Dagger that can pierce at 8D9 damage.
This weapon gives a chance of landing attacks to
(Head)
( 9%)
(Upper)-(Upper)
(18%)(Left) (Torso) (Right)(36%)
(18%)
(Lower)-(Lower)
(Left ) (Right)
( 9%) ( 9%)
a short sword is a type of weapon made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE WIELD
It is undonateable melt-on-drop
Its weight is 6 and its valued at 100 coins.
Wanted Weapon Balance: (base)-=====0===================-(tip)
Actual Weapon Balance: (base)-=====0===================-(tip)
This balance gives the weapon 14 speed, 43 accuracy and 9 evasion.
The one handed weapon is a 60cm Shortsword that can slash at 4D7 damage.
This weapon gives a chance of landing attacks to
(Head)
(10%)
(Upper)-(Upper)
(20%)(Left) (Torso) (Right)(20%)
(10%)
(Lower)-(Lower)
(Left ) (Right)
(20%) (20%)
Love the ring and the dagger is good. Now I dont know what I think about the squire. Upon looking at him and the note left in the room hes made out to be bad ass. Hes pretty weak and easily killed just like the bear. Personally I feel like we should and want to make sure they find this dagger with telling you to talk to the cook.. So maybe get rid of the sword because its weaker then the dagger and change the squire description.
Lets move onto the old west. Here they learn about mounts, range weapons(which sucks atm), tokens, mazes(no reward), timetraps, and they get 2 quest items.
I feel like they should earn something for the maze. Even if its just experience or maybe an earring. There's only one other earring found in the newbie area and its in the old west newbie zone.
Now move onto the quest items
We get :
a green bandana is a type of armor made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE FACE
Its weight is 1 and its valued at 3 coins.
If worn it will give you --
5 to your Strength
-1 to your Armor
AC-apply is 1
and
a pair of wire framed spectacles is a type of armor made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE EYES
It is undonateable unsellable
Its weight is 1 and its valued at 4000 coins.
If worn it will give you --
25 to your Maxmove
4 to your Constitution
AC-apply is 2 applies inn infra
Now, they already have a great face item if they did the quest in pre historic. So why are we giving them another one. I think this should be moved to maybe neck? It would make sense to have a bandana around your neck. The wire framed spectacles, awesome item I love infravision in the dark. Now this is where I bring up why I think casters starting item of magical glasses needs to be moved to an about. Because their starting item they are already having to give up because the spectacles and glasses are both face items.
As we move onto the future I really don't see anything wrong here. We get another weapon 16d4 its alright again we are making them decide which is better.
As they move forward they go through the quest academy upon finish it and turning in all vouchers they receive an olive branch, and (gold?). I personally feel the olive branch is more suited for melee fighters, because you don't obtain all that great of an ulti. This is something we can debate.
Now if we was going to keep some of the items I asked to be removed to help them not get confused on what to use how about we give them some more help on deciding which is better. Compare is crap I personally think and once they get a few levels under their belt and understand the game more its never used again because of how cheap scrolls of identify are. I was discussing this with Loria about maybe adding a script to the feather that allows them to cast identify with it(making sure they don't have to hold it so it doesn't send them to the clan hall) but as long as they are say below level 20? maybe 30 and still in seekers let them use script as much as their heart pleases.
I also dislike how many chances you are given to drop out in school, its like hey this is to hard or to boring go ahead and drop out. I think we should maybe only give the chance at the start then tell them if they wish to leave to just use recall, instead of having school drop outs everywhere.
As far as stats concerned starting out, I personally believe they are fine. Everything seems to be Move, Con , And str. Something that can help all classes early out. I believe once they leave the school the balance of stats should be talked about and discussed in the newbie areas and then out. But that will be in my next post.
Last but not least something I want to bring up is the donation pit in the starting area, what decides if an item goes there? I personally dont feel like we should 2 donation pits. Just causes more of what is better then what.
So im going to go ahead and recap some changes I think need to be done in the school and starting out in general. :
1. Changes casters starting item to an about item, Could call it {cb Mystical {cx cloak. Give it the same stat as the glasses make it an about.
2. Start them all out with the standard issue vest, waterskin, note that is found in the backpack on the ground before lionel
3. Remove the travelers backpack before Lionel.
4. Remove the about item found in Lionel box.
5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item or start them out with an item to manifest.
5. Remove the flint and moccasins found in prehistoric area.
6. Remove the sword from the squire and change his description in the medieval area
7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)
8. Move green banana to a neck slot so it doesn't interfere with the face mask slot.
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit. reg stats are :
an olive branch is a type of weapon made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE WIELD
It is undonateable unsellable
Its weight is 4 and its valued at 0 coins.
If worn it will give you --
2 to your Strength
25 to your Maxhit
Wanted Weapon Balance: (base)-===0=====================-(tip)
Actual Weapon Balance: (base)-====0====================-(tip)
This balance gives the weapon 0 speed, -1 accuracy and 0 evasion.
The one handed weapon is a 40cm Whip that can stab at 10D10 damage.
This weapon gives a chance of landing attacks to
(Head)
(12%)
(Upper)-(Upper)
(24%)(Left) (Torso) (Right)(24%)
(24%)
(Lower)-(Lower)
(Left ) (Right)
( 7%) ( 7%)
10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.
12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?
Now, I still have 2 more posts to come with after this, talking about the newbie zones then the discussion of how to direct them further in game. So if you respond as of right now keep it to starting out and school only till i have the other posts up which should be either later tonight or tomorrow.
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Reserved for newbie zones
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Reserved
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I like your idea about Lionel teaching the newbie casters how to manifest. I also liked your idea in another thread (or just a discussion we had or something) about creating a quest that teaches newbies how to find their own equipment. I think there should be something added that explains how to understand the stats of the different eq and weapons. You and i talked about this before which led to the thought that maybe the feather could have cast identity on it.
I think it would be helpful, too, to add something to the hint channel or newbie quests scripts or room descripts that tell newbies something to the affect of "Newbie Casters can find a great piece of equipment in the Robber Baron's Castle" "Newbie Melees can find a great piece of eq in the Newbie Old West Zone". I say that because newbies (particularly those new to mudding) really don't know what they are looking for or even that they should be looking for something. We don't have to give them the item gift wrapped, just alert them to the existence of it. That could lead to motivation and creativity.
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Love your work Bane! 4D definitely needed this.
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Very good and solid work, Bane.
I totally agree that some of the extra items and options are just confusing. They shouldn't have to make choices that early in the game.
The initial equipment that they load with has to be coded, and since the coders are busy, I'd rather not involve them in this.
It's better we work only with building changes. I'm hoping that Kvetch might help with that, but I've already changed the glasses to an about cloak, as suggested.
So to summarise your suggested changes for MudSchool:
1. Changes casters starting item to an about item, Could call it {cb Mystical {cx cloak. Give it the same stat as the glasses make it an about.
Agreed and already done. Same vnum, different item.
2. Start them all out with the standard issue vest, waterskin, note that is found in the backpack on the ground before lionel
Agreed, except for the part that would demand coding.
I propose that we instead reset the waterskin and vest in the chest at Lionel.
3. Remove the travelers backpack before Lionel.
Agreed. Move some of the content to Lionel's chest.
4. Remove the about item found in Lionel box.
Agreed.
So Lionel's chest should contain:
- a pair of deer skin trousers
- a pair of deer skin moccasins
- a sub issue vest (new)
- a lantern (new)
- a waterskin (new)
- remove the bearskin from reset
5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item
or start them out with an item to manifest.
Agreed.
I too prefer the second option.
So, Lionel gives them a weapon and walks them through the manifest. (Script needs changing)
5. Remove the flint and moccasins found in prehistoric area.
Agreed.
And why not put something else that is useful there instead?
Suggestions?
6. Remove the sword from the squire and change his description in the medieval area
The idea with the squire was that Fighters and Rogues might like different weapons.
So, maybe make the sword a bit better and the squire a bit stronger (8d9 damage, to match the dagger)?
Or make a small quest for the squire instead, where he asks you to fetch something somewhere else in the castle, and in return gives you a better sword? (I prefer the second choice).
He should also tell you to talk to the cook and say that she has a better weapon if you are a rogue. (Script needs changing).
- Keep the ring and the dagger.
7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)
Agreed. So:
- Add an earring, found somewhere in the maze. Perhaps in the grass, (visible container)?(new)
- Keep the spectacles
8. Move green banana to a neck slot so it doesn't interfere with the face mask slot.
Agreed.
- Change the bandana to neck
– or maybe make it a double wear_loc item, for those that may have missed the mask?
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit.
Perhaps give two other choice for the Olive branch, one for each class type?
Suggestions?
10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).
Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).
11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.
Agreed. I'm all for this.
- Remove all exits down except the first one.
- Add some info about Recall command and Feather in the rooms between each Dimension.
12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?
- Remove the Newbie donation pit. (It probably doesn't work anyhow).
I still have 2 more posts to come with after this, talking about the newbie zones then the discussion of how to direct them further in game.
Looking forward to your other posts. :)
I assume that the general plan would be to have all wear_loc slots filled after they leave Mudschool and the Newbie Areas, including the Arena.
Not necessarily first class objects, but something good enough to start them out.
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Very well laid out Bane.
A lot of this has been along the same lines as what I have wanted to do with the Mud School and newbie areas for some time now. Let me also hit upon your recap points listed and add in my own take of how I think mud school and that which follows the most effective. (It’s a long post, so bear with me)
1. Changes casters starting item to an about item, Could call it {cb Mystical {cx cloak. Give it the same stat as the glasses make it an about.
Thank you Molly, this was a needed fix. Don’t gypsies start with an earring item? I’m not at a computer right now I can check if that’s the case, but that’s what I seem to remember. Maybe this was changed since you pick only Fighter, Caster, or Rogue now? Instead of starting within a class? Because I thought the cape of the squire was warrior only, so if Hunters get it now, I wonder what they used to get? I think there may be some equipment that got lost with that code change that could be relocated to somewhere in the school potentially.
2. Start them all out with the standard issue vest, waterskin, note that is found in the backpack on the ground before lionel
As Molly said before, since it is coded it is best not to do that and just use her suggestion of placing the items in the chest near Lionel.
3. Remove the travelers backpack before Lionel.
I think the backpack is a great item personally. It’s a container that can be worn. I find those types of items to be very beneficial in keeping your inventory clean and leaving more room for potions etc. Perhaps just change the wear location and add some stats to it.
4. Remove the about item found in Lionel box.
Reasonable. This will certainly avoid the confusion of choosing too early on in the teaching.
5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item or start them out with an item to manifest.
I agree with this; however we will have to have the newbies gain at least 1 level by now so they have practice pointes to train manifest in order to actually manifest the item. So they’ll have to be taught training, practice command, score command (if not already learned), skilllist class command, and spell info command. The last two can be taught at a later time but those first few are definitely important early on. The whole teaching aspect of this is what a lot of my idea of how the school should work revolves around. But I’ll get into that later.
5. Remove the flint and moccasins found in prehistoric area.
There is also a squirrel skin which is a decent neck item in a burrow in prehistoric so with your recommendation of adding the bandana to be neck item may add confusion. I’ll explain a potential fix to that later when I get to that section however.
6. Remove the sword from the squire and change his description in the medieval area
I agree the sword should be removed, perhaps a piece of equipment added. The squire could be great for explaining the challenge system I proposed in another thread. Where using the challenge command you would throw your gauntlet at their feet and your opponent is given the option to accept or decline, if accepted, both are whisked away to the arena, similar to the immortal run arena. But perhaps a bit smaller, like the tournament yard in size. Of course he would explain after the mini battle that you can’t go around challenge other NPC’s in the game like him, but you can challenge any other player. This is a recommendation and something that would be nice to see and give the squire something to teach.
7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)
I too agree there should definitely be a reward for the maze, I think it is interesting that the maze is there, and they aren’t really taught about how to properly solve mazes until the quest academy. I think a little teaching should be involved and the quest academy maze later on should be a little bit more difficult. I think this maze is harder than the quest academy as is. I’m not certain what old west earring you are referring to, but I believe one of the newbie arena zones, there is a sonic amplifier or something similar that is an ear item. But in any case we do need another, perhaps relocate the old gypsy ear item to the maze?
8. Move green banana to a neck slot so it doesn't interfere with the face mask slot.
I think the bandana could be the first multiple wear location item earned. One to get the bandana the newbie is fairly well skilled already since a lot of inexperienced players miss the quest area for it. Which leads to two… that because of that experience teaching them about multi wear location items is certainly reasonable. The teaching will involve reiterating how to identify it, since this is the first time they’ll have to identify an item, being the first choice of what item to wear. Then pointing out to them that the stats on it are better than the stats on the squirrel skin, and telling them to wear bandana on neck. Since just wear bandana would wear it on the face. This way we can teach identify and multiple wear location items in one go. Thoughts?
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit. reg stats are :
The olive branch was originally chosen because it points you in the direction of the real olive branch which is supposed to be stronger and have better stats. Which is reasonable but he olive branch isn’t a good caster item, because casters don’t need strength items since they have the spell strength. This is also something they should also be taught. I recommend changing the Helper rewards dependent on the players class, because right now I think they are fairly underrated. It can also honestly be scripted rewards, it does give a small duty for Helpers to do, but it is really unnecessary. The idea behind it was so you couldn’t do the quest on alts, but how are we supposed to know if someone is an alt if the imms won’t tell you who is ( which I understand) or the imms don’t check the board to see if the players are cashing in on multiple alts? Really the reward isn’t a big deal for that to even matter there are plenty of other tokens that are earnable through real quests that people can just repeat on alts, so if that really was the decisive factor… personally I don’t think that’s a reason.
10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).
Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).
I agree with both Bane and Molly on this. I believe I have a solution to it as well. Regardless of the item it is that allows them to identify, they have to receive the item fairly early on. At least get it right before the bandana choosing, or maybe even at the same time as it. They of course have to be taught how to use it, I’d recommend it being identical to a scroll of knowledge/identify, perhaps a scroll that replenishes in your inventory after you use it. With the fair warning of after their first remort they will use it any longer, and perhaps make it poof if they try to. This is something that I should be able to script fairly easily.
As for the grenades Molly mentioned, removal would probably be best for now to avoid confusion, and if and when code is fixed, then can add grenades back in.
11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.
Agreed. I'm all for this.
- Remove all exits down except the first one.
- Add some info about Recall command and Feather in the rooms between each Dimension.
Right with Molly on this one.
12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?
- Remove the Newbie donation pit. (It probably doesn't work anyhow).
The donation pit does work, but because the newbie school isn’t accessible at all by everyone, even remorted newbies, it should be removed. Right now it’s about a 50/50 shot as to where the donated items go, so eventually both rooms end up with a fair share of things. Again to avoid confusion it is probably best to keep the one at Recall. This also allows them to be near the social hangout spot and perhaps get drawn in more. But they should be taught that there is a donation pit there, after they have navigated through the school, academy, arena, and mini zones.
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Now that I have hit upon all of those topics, one overlying theme I had in most of my responses is teaching. From my experience and what I remember in the mud school is that not everything is perfectly explained and in the best order of learning, within the school. Something I have seen before and I think really lures people in is having someone help you through the school. When I do this with newbie’s it tends to make their experience better because they have someone to point out things as they are moving through because they tend to miss things. Let me explain with the examples above.
For manifesting, Lionel could signal to a personal trainer to come over to teach you the skill, can teach you how to get one item out of the chest, or all the items at once, how to wear one item, or how to wear all of them. By having a mob talking to them, even though it isn’t a player it still adds some interaction and they can be guided through the school. Being told to follow the rooms to the end as the mob is on autofollow. If the player has to log out, this trainer/guide could be summoned using an item that they could be given ahead of time and the scripts would all be based upon what room is entered. If the newbie has been through the school and runs through, the scripts would be set off, but be terminated if the room is left. Every step of the way, from explaining multi wear locations, identify, mazes, hidden containers, climbing, descending, entering, mounting, etc, can be explained to them or be there to remind them some of these things they learned when they are somewhere, where they made need to use it. Of course if this is bothersome to the newbie because they’ve been everywhere before they can dismiss the guide/trainer and not receive the extra help. This will be a lot of scripts, but overall I think it would make the newbies experience more enjoyable.
Since the school and academy will ideally teach everything the newbie needs to know I think it would also be good to add smaller nooks and crannies hidden throughout the school to give more experienced newbies that little extra thing to find which they couldn’t have known how to find them unless they had experience or went through it again. And again of course, they would be encouraged by their trainer/guide to go through it again to see if there was anything “hidden” that they missed.
Upon completion of the school/academy they should also be directly directed to the newbie arena, perhaps exact directions how to get there from Recall, so they can keep going back since there are warps in every area that bring you to Recall. There is an abundance of gear in the arena and a fair share of quests, so definitely good for learning. For the arena and mini zones, the guide/trainer isn’t needed.
Lastly, I think that everything the newbie does in all of these zones should yield experience. The first remort is the hardest and I think they should be given a checklist of things to accomplish to achieve their first remort just on tasks to expedite the process. The checklist could look like this:
4D School
Find the 4D School Zone Flag
Receive the 4D School Diploma
Find all five Helper Vouchers
Quest Academy
Worship a Sun God
Newbie Arena
Help a Sergeant Major
Help an old man make some clothes
Two more things for the Old West and Prehistoric zones
Find the Newbie Arena Zone Flag
Newbie Mini Zones
Help a Sheriff –Wanted: Dead, not alive
Find the Newbie Dry Gulch Zone Flag
Help Zera – Find her lost bracelet
Find the Newbie Android Factory Zone Flag
Save the Chieftain wife’s lost son
Find the Newbie Stone Age Zone Flag
To the Castle! Rescue a Prisoner
Find the Newbie Robber Baron’s Castle Zone Flag
That is 17 tasks so if each of these tasks yield enough experience (that can only be awarded once per task) to bring the player close to 50 or remort status. That way the hardest remort is complete and the player can move on feeling very accomplished. Exploring the newbie areas/arena/academy/school is enough work already and time consuming for newbies, if they are continuously rewarded from accomplishing things, I am fairly sure they would stick around longer because everyone enjoys being rewarded.
At this point now they they’ve gotten this far, it goes into something Bane mentioned....A quest hub that sends the newbies out to different areas to find items to improve upon their now complete equipment set they got from the newbie areas.
I would be more than willing to tackle the mud school/academy/newbie arena/newbie zones item modifications, script changes, script additions etc. I would just need those areas moved over to buildport and granted access. I think it’s a fairly easy project, the guide/trainer thing will be the trickiest and will need some testers to go through the school and see how much easier it makes things, and what I would have to add or take away to make it more efficient.
As for the steps from after the newbie areas are completed. Bane if you could compose a list of all the easier quests / easier zones with equipment that can be gotten off of easy kills or just picked up and perhaps a list of directions to each of those zones, that could be beneficial, and I could work on setting up a script for that.
That is all of my thoughts for now. Some things I wrote might not make sense because I just started typing away, but overall that is the gist of what I think will help make the life of the Newbie much easier.
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I think the backpack is a great item personally. It’s a container that can be worn. I find those types of items to be very beneficial in keeping your inventory clean and leaving more room for potions etc. Perhaps just change the wear location and add some stats to it.
He was referring to the second backpack. It seems newbies are given one as they start out, then there is another one right before Lionel. I think he means that they don't need two. Right, Bane?
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit. reg stats are :
... the olive branch isn’t a good caster item, because casters don’t need strength items since they have the spell strength. This is also something they should also be taught. I recommend changing the Helper rewards dependent on the players class, because right now I think they are fairly underrated...
Good point, all of the above. I know that i never used the olive branch when i was a newb. I am fairly certain none of the other newbs really use it.
11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.
Agreed. I'm all for this.
- Remove all exits down except the first one.
- Add some info about Recall command and Feather in the rooms between each Dimension.
Right with Molly on this one.
Agreed. In fact, I have had to convince newbies that they won't be dropping out of school if they needed to exit down in order to get to a different area. Its pretty confusing.
12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?
- Remove the Newbie donation pit. (It probably doesn't work anyhow).
Agreed. The only time i ever remember using the newbie donation pit was when i accidentally donated something i needed and went to retrieve it. *snicker*
I think they should be given a checklist of things to accomplish to achieve their first remort just on tasks to expedite the process
What a great idea!! I love this idea. I mean, the school is all about learning, right? Lists are a great way to teach the newbies what they should be working on.
As a side note, if we implemented a checklist, we could add in there to look for melee/caster/rogue eq in xyz zone or just simply say 'there are x number of eq per class spread through out the school and academy, be sure to look for them.' That way they would have a better idea of what to look for and know when they have found them all, a lot like we currently treat the helper vouchers.
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Great stuff.
4D School
Find the 4D School Zone Flag
Receive the 4D School Diploma
Find all five Helper Vouchers
Quest Academy
Worship a Sun God
Newbie Arena
Help a Sergeant Major
Help an old man make some clothes
Two more things for the Old West and Prehistoric zones
Find the Newbie Arena Zone Flag
Newbie Mini Zones
Help a Sheriff –Wanted: Dead, not alive
Find the Newbie Dry Gulch Zone Flag
Help Zera – Find her lost bracelet
Find the Newbie Android Factory Zone Flag
Save the Chieftain wife’s lost son
Find the Newbie Stone Age Zone Flag
To the Castle! Rescue a Prisoner
Find the Newbie Robber Baron’s Castle Zone Flag
Like I said in another thread I think we should extend this beyond the newbie zones. Maybe Lionel takes care of this checklist and then directs you to Ms Smith with some mention of the nail polish you should have found. Ms Smith does her thing and hands over the crystal bladed longsword (or some rogue/caster equivalent) and then her script continues by directing you to Cyrene, then to Farmer Joe's football then to Sanctuary Haze with the goal of reaching lvl?? and so on. If Ms Smith hands out solid experience on top of the useful items you're finding anyway, people will keep coming back for her next tip. That way they get a real taste of the realms before they have a chance to be overwhelmed by it all.
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Ms Smith, is a good choice for the quest hub mob. I think even the quests for her can yield significant exp, and give experience that will eventually get them to tier 4, maybe midway through. After that, they have some good equipment, Tier 4 of their first class and feel very accomplished at this point, by doing all of these quests, and getting all these gears and levels, all on their own. Just need a full line up of quests suitable.
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Can we please stick to just the school at the moment and not move on to the quest line before I post on it. So we dont get ahead of ourselves. Ill try to get it up soon, and answer some of the questions.
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I have to head out, but I have currently:
1) removed the backpack before Lionel, placing the sub-issue vest, lantern, waterskin and "very important letter" in the box with Lionel.
- this removed the extra helmet and dagger that used to be in the backpack.
2) removed the bear skin from the box at Lionel.
3) Created a tuft of grass and put it in the maze
4) Created an earring and put it in the tuft of grass
- earring gives +1CHA, +3 health regen, +10 move regen
- figured move regen would be good for newbies right now as that always seems to be an issue. Didn't want the CHA or health regen to be too good. Will change this to any other suggestion provided approval from Molly.
5) Made the bandana a dual wear (Face/Neck)
6) Took out the moccasins and flintstone in prehistoric (I did leave the "sliver of flintstone" you get from under the stone as it helps people learn to remove items and wield other items - part of the sign or room description, I forget which).
I will work on the rest that has been decided on when I get back. Make more firm decisions and I'll do a lot more work. ;)
Kvetchy
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@Kvetch
Wow! You're right on the ball!
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They will probably need something telling them how to 'wear bandana ON neck.'
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One point made was that all things on this checklist should basically give enough exp for the first remort. That was a good point.
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They will probably need something telling them how to 'wear bandana ON neck.'
Yeah, I was going to put that in the look description, but once I got back from what I was doing the mud was lagging so much it kept crashing me out. So, I wasn't able to continue the work I was doing.
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The checklist that was discussed could be put in a helpfile rather than yet another pamphlet/booklet/leaflet for the newbie to keep up with. They way they always have it with them, and the get used to reading help files. It could be called something like What Now?
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Yeah, a help file sounds like the way to go, to me... and something to reinforce that there are help files available for use. I'm pretty sure the help files are mentioned somewhere in the school, but some of the new players don't seem to pick up on it.
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Except that...
If we make it a book or a checklist object, we could put a script on that, to show what parts of the things on the list that they had done or not done, when typing 'Check list' or something like that.
The script could be based on what questflags they have.
I remember someone asking for a feature like that before.
It would be a bit over the top to have a script check for every one of our 200 quests, but a script to handle about 20 flags for the newbie tasks should be quite possible to make.
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Ah... an actual functioning check list, that would justify carrying the additional item. Would they be able to replace it, if it were somehow lost? Jaros's idea of having a mob handle the check list would also work, but I like the idea of letting them have it with them. Maybe the check list could be given to them by the mob?
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What if we constructed a quest log for each player? That way, olbie or newbie, each player could see what quests they have completed, which ones they are in the middle of, and what percentage of the way through it, they are. Not to mention a little bit of info on each quest to help them remember what it is they are doing. I have seen this on other muds and it is amazing!! I love that feature.
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It's a good idea Loria. It would just mean setting it up with every quest in the game. A very time consuming endeavor that involves knowing what part of the script is the "completed quest". A time consuming endeavor but a good idea still.
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Yeah, I too like the idea.
Except that we have over 200 different quests in the game, many of which are extremely complex. Usually they are run by several different scripts, each setting a questflag to define how far a player has proceeded in the quest. So for one of our 10-step quests -and we have several of those - we'd need to check ten different flags, not just one. Not to mention that in some of the scripts the quest flag is set by a mob, in others by an object or a room, so basically we'd have to go through every script in every zone to make sure.
Plus that over the years we've had many different builders, and each builder has their own individual style of scripting, which is not immediately clear to someone else, when checking the scripts. Personally I usually make notes of everything in my zones, but even so I don't recall by now how many of my own quests are set to work. And figuring it out when some other builder did the job is ten times as hard.
In short, I don't think anyone has the time, energy and motivation to carry out such a project. I certainly would never under any circumstances try it myself - (and I would probably be the most suitable person for the task too. It would mean a lot more job for anybody else, since most of the quest scripts are mine).
So however good the idea is, it just isn't feasible. Like many other good ideas it is hampered by the sheer size and age of the mud. A feature like this should have been coded in from the start, then it might have been possible. But since code wasn't our strongest side in the past, we had to resort to scripts, and 10 years and 150 zones later it just means way too much work. It's like turning an ocean steamer around by using a paddle.
I'm not prepared to take on that task, and I doubt that anyone else is either.
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I've actually grabbed a lot of the variables off the people that do the most adventuring/quests so I probably have a good list. And the majority of finding the script that does it can be done via tsearch. I had started this myself back whenever, but it sounded like even though it was a good plan no-one really thought it was viable. Then Lionheart said something about it should be easy and I just shrugged it away. One thing I did like though was Mord's journal where people could write their own things in the pages. The only problem I had with it (yes, I do have an object for the script on build port) was that it interferred with my client at the time. I had to keep disconnecting to get out of the journal and of course it didn't save then. Once we figured out the problem and I shut off the interference it worked great. But I'd hate to hand something out that some people get fed up over because it interfers with the clients they use. Maybe that could be looked into closer for a step up from nothing for the time being.
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@Molly
1. Changes casters starting item to an about item, Could call it {cb Mystical {cx cloak. Give it the same stat as the glasses make it an about.
Agreed and already done. Same vnum, different item.
Awesome
2. Start them all out with the standard issue vest, waterskin, note that is found in the backpack on the ground before lionel
Agreed, except for the part that would demand coding.
I propose that we instead reset the waterskin and vest in the chest at Lionel.
Something with the waterskin that bugs me is they are not shown about hunger till they enter the school and it doesnt even apply to them till what level 10 or 20?
Should we even keep the waterskin?
3. Remove the travelers backpack before Lionel
Agreed. Move some of the content to Lionel's chest.
Awesome
4. Remove the about item found in Lionel box.
Agreed.
So Lionel's chest should contain:
- a pair of deer skin trousers
- a pair of deer skin moccasins
- a sub issue vest (new)
- a lantern (new)
- a waterskin (new)
- remove the bearskin from reset
Great! But refer to Number 2
5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item
or start them out with an item to manifest.
Agreed.
I too prefer the second option.
So, Lionel gives them a weapon and walks them through the manifest. (Script needs changing)
Good
5. Remove the flint and moccasins found in prehistoric area.
Agreed.
And why not put something else that is useful there instead?
Suggestions?
Maybe something for arms or gloves? Maybe beer skin gloves considering theres a bear in the area?
6. Remove the sword from the squire and change his description in the medieval area
The idea with the squire was that Fighters and Rogues might like different weapons.
So, maybe make the sword a bit better and the squire a bit stronger (8d9 damage, to match the dagger)?
Or make a small quest for the squire instead, where he asks you to fetch something somewhere else in the castle, and in return gives you a better sword? (I prefer the second choice).
He should also tell you to talk to the cook and say that she has a better weapon if you are a rogue. (Script needs changing).
I agree with the second choice, I would say make it class dependent.
Squire gives a quest for fighters, cook gives one for rogues and Gandalf gives one for mages.
If you are the wrong class have them point you to who to see. The sign where the cook would need to be changed because it says to talk to the cook for a quest. Could maybe move the sign to the squire. Make it some kind of board with flyers up with people who could use a spare hand.
7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)
Agreed. So:
- Add an earring, found somewhere in the maze. Perhaps in the grass, (visible container)?(new)
- Keep the spectacles
Make it in a visible container when they find their way out.
8. Move green banana to a neck slot so it doesn't interfere with the face mask slot.
Agreed.
- Change the bandana to neck
– or maybe make it a double wear_loc item, for those that may have missed the mask?
Agreed
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit.
Perhaps give two other choice for the Olive branch, one for each class type?
Suggestions?
Something else I noticed with casters recieving the olive branch is that they are forced to put a timer on their reward. And the timer expired i think around 4-5 days for me.
So Id say lets remove the olive branch as a whole, and replace it with 3 weapons, one for each class but make it have the same scripts the branch had.
Let fighters get either an axe or a mace, lets start to go ahead and veer away a little with always using swords.
10d/10d
2 str
25 max hit
Rogues
Dagger or I was thinking more of something along the lines of sometype of gloves with claws?
2dex
5hitroll
Casters
Lets give them a staff, have it give the same ulti as a reg staff you can woodsing. Give it a decent timer(or can this be removed, Or can it change into another object and you can have one of the caster trainers embue magic back into it to put its timer back on it?)
2 int
4 cha
Stats dont have to be what I suggested but i figured somewhere along the lines of stats would be useful for damage.
10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).
Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).
How about we change the remote you get off the captain into an item that you can use to identify.
Call it a tricorder for anyone that never watched star trek
In Star Trek, “tricorders” are handheld devices used for sensor scanning, data analysis and recording data. Or maybe move it to the diploma.
11. Removing all of the drop outs in school except one at the start, and telling them how to recall out if they wish to leave the school and return later.
Agreed. I'm all for this.
- Remove all exits down except the first one.
- Add some info about Recall command and Feather in the rooms between each Dimension
12. The newbie donation pit. Is it needed?
- Remove the Newbie donation pit. (It probably doesn't work anyhow).
One thing about this is the quest for the tradepoints will need to be moved. Honestly he didnt feel right there to me, to me he does feel like he was thrown in. I will have to think about maybe where to move him to.
I assume that the general plan would be to have all wear_loc slots filled after they leave Mudschool and the Newbie Areas, including the Arena.
Not necessarily first class objects, but something good enough to start them out.
Ill explain further shortly
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Btw the rest will be up tommorrow night PROMISE. Was a pretty busy week but i cant complain.
Got hired into my company
Became an uncle
and bought a new car :)
I know im bad with giving exact due dates sorry :(
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Since I cant edit my posts I had to post this here.
But after leaving the quest academy a newbie I feel needs more direction. One thing I think we need to remove is having to hand in the vouchers to helpers. I know that basically all a helper is kinda good for, but their might not always be a helper on. And personally I think at looking at the who list there is way too many people with way to many tags. I personally would like to see helper removed, and have the existing helpers apply for hero. But that's getting off topic I think.
I think a machine or a npc should be placed to accept the vouchers and reward them with a weapon based on their class. I laid out some weapons in my previous post before this with some stats that I thought would be fitting. I think gordy would be the best npc to turn in the vouchers too. They could go turn in the vouchers and he could then point them towards the newbie zones again because nothing else is said about going back to him to check out the newbie zones if you are able to completely go through the school and quest academy. You just get thrown into recall room and nothing said about going back to him. If you want to keep helpers to receive the vouchers then when they leave the quest academy they should be taken back to Gordy and have him emphasize on them going to the newbie areas, especially if this is your first time on 4d.
Now, something else I did not like is that when you go to venture way its easy to miss or walk by the easy newbie zones(preparation room) I never knew about them when I first started and I had walked right pass them and ended up playing on the game grid. The road guard only talks about their being 4 zones on venture way and in reality their is 8. So I personally think preparation room should be moved off venture way, as not to confuse them more. They can check out the easy newbie zones then move onto the zones in adventure avenue. Or make it so you need to walk through the preparation room before you can continue onto venture way. Should be an easy fix.
Now lets get into the preparation room. There are 4 zones here. One for each dimension. I like how the portals work here. You must climb, mount, enter, and jump to enter the portals here. So lets go ahead and descend the vine and enter the first zone. You get thrown into the prehistoric area.
You got a fairly simply quest here help someone find a weapon to defeat the dinosaur. Now your reward for this is 5000 measly gold coins, and 1000 if you repeat it. With the way the gold system is here this is completely useless and a waste of time imo. If we ever got our gold problem fixed(someday I hope we do) then this wouldn't be such a large problem but this really doesn't allow them buy much. Maybe a few scrolls of identify or a few potions? I say we up the amount you receive to 25,000- 50,000.
Now when you leave here you have to find a hole, entering the hole takes you back to recall(why?) This hole should take you back to the preparation room. Its silly to have to walk back to the guard then gordy etc. All the exits from all 4 zones here take you back to the recall area. They all need to be changed
Lets go ahead and go to the next zone there. Which is entering the portal and ending up in the medieval zone.
I personally like this zone, there's a lot of equipment here you can get and I like the fact you have to gather the items to receive them. Now the only thing I really didn't like is that you receive an ankle item here. Which is a unique spot and the other classes who do not have any ankles slots are left out on a piece of equipment. I think an easy fix would just to be to remove the ankle item as a hole. As far as the rest of the items go seems to be a decent balance of all stats here.
Next zone we mount up and enter the old west zone. Its a decent zone. You can earn a little bit cash in exchange for horse shoes, you get a decent earring here and you can also get some food. I think the cash you get for turning in the horse shoe needs to be upped. I think its 1000, Now as it is a repeatable quest I dont think it should be to high maybe 3000-5000(but im not sure though_? Food is kinda useless because I doubt they are high enough to even feel hunger yet. Idk if maybe you could make it so they receive some kind of buff off eating the food? Armor or bless? A script would have to be made becase I would hate to see if turned into a potion and you have to quaff some bread.. But if it made it easier we could do that.
Last but not least lets jump the gate and enter the future area. This zone is basically set up for melee classes for rewards. You get a 10d10 weapon( dont have stats manifested it :P) and a White beret
a White Beret is a type of armor made from base-material
It can be taken and worn on TAKE HEAD
It is undonateable unsellable
Its weight is 3 and its valued at 100 coins.
If worn it will give you --
1 to your Hitroll
1 to your Damroll
1 to your Constitution
AC-apply is 2
Now if i remember right we have to wear the beret to equip the weapon, Idk if I really like that idea. I mean you have to have the white beret for the quest but you also have to have it to use the weapon for the reward, but if you manifest it into a orb you dont. So i think we need to just remove the restriction of having to wear the hat to use the weapon. I do like the quest here, its not so easy for a newbie but if they can figure it out it will help them figure out quests better in the long run because of how its set up. You have to talk to npcs before you can find everything you need and also you have to wear certain equipment to finish it. So I really like this quest even if it is a tad hard.
Im trying to think of a way to balance the quest reward out for both classes but I cant. And maybe its time for them to realize that not every quest is gonna help you they way you need it. But maybe we can throw in a token as a reward.
So im going to go ahead and recap
1. Do we want to keep the way we turn in vouchers the same or should we move them to a npc like Gordy?
2. After finish the quest academy re-point the newbies back to Gordy or have them start back at Gordy to finish up the newbie areas before exploring 4d.
3. Remove the preparation room from venture way, or make it so you have to walk through the preparation room to enter venture way so they do not miss this area as its helpful.
4. Change the reward in the prehistoric area. 5000 gold isint all that much up to around 25,000?
5. Remove the anklet item(wool socks) from the medieval area because its a unique slot and not available to all.( I have an idea to help newbie get their unique spots filled later on)
6. In the old west area, the food quest is more less useless to them because I highly doubt they will be high enough to even feel hunger yet. Add a affect to the food item so you receive armor or bless? Or turn it into a potion if its easier then making a script for it. Also do we want to up the gold received for turning in horseshoes since or economy is in such bad shape.
7. Remove the flags for having to wear the white beret to wield the blaster and also add a token as a reward for the quest considering its not exactly an easy quest.
8. Change the exits from all the zones to take you back to the preparation room instead or recall.
Sorry it took so long. Im back to being active again. more to come.
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Also something I wanted to add in from my previous post
9. Is olive branch adequate enough for casters? 1.44 multi. Seems more for melee fighters with the 10d10 and 25 max hit.
Perhaps give two other choice for the Olive branch, one for each class type?
Suggestions?
Something else I noticed with casters recieving the olive branch is that they are forced to put a timer on their reward. And the timer expired i think around 4-5 days for me.
So Id say lets remove the olive branch as a whole, and replace it with 3 weapons, one for each class but make it have the same scripts the branch had.
Let fighters get either an axe or a mace, lets start to go ahead and veer away a little with always using swords.
10d/10d
2 str
25 max hit
Rogues
Dagger or I was thinking more of something along the lines of sometype of gloves with claws?
2dex
5hitroll
Casters
Lets give them a staff, have it give the same ulti as a reg staff you can woodsing. Give it a decent timer(or can this be removed, Or can it change into another object and you can have one of the caster trainers embue magic back into it to put its timer back on it?)
2 int
4 cha
Stats dont have to be what I suggested but i figured somewhere along the lines of stats would be useful for damage.
Make sure that they work the same way as the olive branch does, where you can only wear it till x level.
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I've actually grabbed a lot of the variables off the people that do the most adventuring/quests so I probably have a good list. And the majority of finding the script that does it can be done via tsearch. I had started this myself back whenever, but it sounded like even though it was a good plan no-one really thought it was viable. Then Lionheart said something about it should be easy and I just shrugged it away. One thing I did like though was Mord's journal where people could write their own things in the pages. The only problem I had with it (yes, I do have an object for the script on build port) was that it interferred with my client at the time. I had to keep disconnecting to get out of the journal and of course it didn't save then. Once we figured out the problem and I shut off the interference it worked great. But I'd hate to hand something out that some people get fed up over because it interfers with the clients they use. Maybe that could be looked into closer for a step up from nothing for the time being.
I actually think this idea would be the best approach. Of course we would have to show the newbies how to use it but, I think it would be helpful to everyone. Im not sure of how you have it set up, but it would be neat to see it set up like the recall board. You can write a title for it then have the note to follow.
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@ xeriuth
5. Have Lionel walk casters through manifesting an item, either he gives them an item or start them out with an item to manifest.
I agree with this; however we will have to have the newbies gain at least 1 level by now so they have practice pointes to train manifest in order to actually manifest the item. So they’ll have to be taught training, practice command, score command (if not already learned), skilllist class command, and spell info command. The last two can be taught at a later time but those first few are definitely important early on. The whole teaching aspect of this is what a lot of my idea of how the school should work revolves around. But I’ll get into that later.
Newbies start out with practice points when they log in. And you are able to practice your first skills with lionel.
7. Give them a reward for the maze.(Money, Exp, Earring?)
I too agree there should definitely be a reward for the maze, I think it is interesting that the maze is there, and they aren’t really taught about how to properly solve mazes until the quest academy. I think a little teaching should be involved and the quest academy maze later on should be a little bit more difficult. I think this maze is harder than the quest academy as is. I’m not certain what old west earring you are referring to, but I believe one of the newbie arena zones, there is a sonic amplifier or something similar that is an ear item. But in any case we do need another, perhaps relocate the old gypsy ear item to the maze?
Its a earing of animal hearing you have to wear it to hear the animals talk in the medieval zone. I was wrong on the area. But yes I do remember there use to be items for each class, im sure they are still around. But instead of moving those items to the newbie area i was thinking they could be rewards for your class when you start doing the tasks after the newbie area. Maybe have the stats increased a little.
10. Discussion of adding a identify script on to the seeker feather.
I'd rather we add a small quest in Future for an item with a script to cast identify, restricted for first remort.
(The feather already has too many scripts on it).
Also I have my doubts about the grenade in future, since grenades don't seem to work in the present code.
(Either remove the grenade or fix the code).
I agree with both Bane and Molly on this. I believe I have a solution to it as well. Regardless of the item it is that allows them to identify, they have to receive the item fairly early on. At least get it right before the bandana choosing, or maybe even at the same time as it. They of course have to be taught how to use it, I’d recommend it being identical to a scroll of knowledge/identify, perhaps a scroll that replenishes in your inventory after you use it. With the fair warning of after their first remort they will use it any longer, and perhaps make it poof if they try to. This is something that I should be able to script fairly easily.
As for the grenades Molly mentioned, removal would probably be best for now to avoid confusion, and if and when code is fixed, then can add grenades back in.
You can read my previous thread towards molly on my idea on this, but I do agree with one thing it would be nicer to have early on. So its definitely something that needs to be discussed on where and when we receive this item. But then again I do like my idea of making a tricorder for killing the captain in the future area. Because I think his reward is lame.
As for the rest of your post Ill have to get back with you on it. I do like some of your ideas But i dont want to see all their levels handed to them for finding stuff. They will eventually have to grind for some levels in the future so I want to make sure they still have to work for some levels. But i was talking to Once about this we can get them a double exp potion to help them gain these levels also. He said it would be an easy to put in, we just want to make sure its not able to be abused or given away.
I also want to steer away from pointing them towards too many quests. I want to keep to items that are not quest rewards. I want to direct them towards a few here and there but not many.
With so many things we could have them find we could maybe reach out past the tier 1 and move on to helping them getting their whole first class done. But we will discuss more of this later. I have to get ready for work.
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Just want to point out that I too missed the newbie zones after mud school the first time around. In fact, I'm not even sure when I found out about them, could have been when I was becoming a Helper. After the mudschool it was like you're dropped in recall where it says "If you are level 15 or higher go up to see the guardian to be transported to the higher level areas". I like the thought of being dropped back off at Gordy or somewhere else other than recall. And I also agree that when you're done with each zone you should be sent back to where the portals are instead of recall. If it was their last venture way zone they can just type recall (I believe the newbies get it for free up to level 40 or so??) to get to recall.
The Journal:
I'll post the script on the scripting board for everyone to look at, but basically, if there was a way to change the commands so they worked exactly like the board, I would think it would help, but I"m not sure what would happened if you tried to write in your journal in a room that had a board in it - which may be why some commands are different. I seem to remember the command to end and get out of the journal was ;s and that was what messed up my client at the time. Something about parsing. I still don't know what it means. *heh*
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Just want to point out that I too missed the newbie zones after mud school the first time around. In fact, I'm not even sure when I found out about them, could have been when I was becoming a Helper. After the mudschool it was like you're dropped in recall where it says "If you are level 15 or higher go up to see the guardian to be transported to the higher level areas". I like the thought of being dropped back off at Gordy or somewhere else other than recall. And I also agree that when you're done with each zone you should be sent back to where the portals are instead of recall. If it was their last venture way zone they can just type recall (I believe the newbies get it for free up to level 40 or so??) to get to recall.
The Journal:
I'll post the script on the scripting board for everyone to look at, but basically, if there was a way to change the commands so they worked exactly like the board, I would think it would help, but I"m not sure what would happened if you tried to write in your journal in a room that had a board in it - which may be why some commands are different. I seem to remember the command to end and get out of the journal was ;s and that was what messed up my client at the time. Something about parsing. I still don't know what it means. *heh*
Seems like to me the ; would interfere cause its already a command in game to do multiple actions in one line.
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It worked fine when I used it on the build port - of course I have a different client now, but the ; to do multiple actions at once doesn't seem to be interfered.
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I'm sorry, but I don't really see the need for a journal to write on in game.
It would be as lo easier to just open a notepad dokument on the computer, and put all the info they want on that. They could name it 'journal' or '4D' or whatever, and keep it open on the desktop while mudding, so they can write down things they want to remember there. Then it won't get lost, like a scrap of paper would.
It's what I've always been doing myself while building, I write down all the details about a zone, to make sure that the different parts are consistant and complete.
It's a lot easier to write something down in notepad, than taking notes in the game.
So I think that's the advise we should give to the newbies.
Many clients also offer the option of opening a notepad window beside the game window, for instance KaVir's client app (which we are planning to let the players download from our website) has that option.
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I like the journal just for the fact I dont have to worry about losing the notes or not being on the computer the notes are stored on.
I know some people take long breaks, I just think it would be nice to have the option of being able to have all your notes saved on the server side so you dont ever have to worry about losing it. I just really dislike having to have multiple different programs, then having to swap between screens when it cou
If we dont want to offer it to newbies ok, I feel like it should be a players choice. If its not something thats all that hard to input then I think we should. I would potentially use it myself as im not always on the same computer
Side nite Ill be starting a new thread that keeps track of the changes and stuff and will leave this thread up for just holding the discussions,
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A journal if it contained quest information generated via scripts would be amazing. A journal just to write on as a notepad ingame is a silly idea.
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I just think it would be nice to have the option of being able to have all your notes saved on the server side so you dont ever have to worry about losing it. I just really dislike having to have multiple different programs, then having to swap between screens
Hmm, I don't even know if this is possible, so I am passing the question on to whoever might know, (which probably means Thotter or Mordecai):
Would it be possible to store individual notepad journals made by the players on our server, so that they they can access them from any computer?
I know it can be done on a Mud client, but the client wouldn't be available if they wanted to play from an extra laptop or i-phone.
Apart from that, I still think that it would be a lot easier to use a separate window for making notes, instead of being constantly disturbed and spammed out of the screen in the game window. Easier to write too, no need to use funky commands like /s, /r 'whatever' 'whichever' etc.
A journal if it contained quest information generated via scripts would be amazing. A journal just to write on as a notepad ingame is a silly idea.
I might be willing to work on a scripted Quest journal along the lines I sketched in my post on the other thread;
http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,682.msg5049.html#msg5049
provided that someone else helps out, in particular with the quests in zones that I didn't build, (and I guess that means Kvetch or Diandra, since I don't really imagine anyone else would volunteer).
Setting up the all the scripts for that journal involves a shitload of work, and I am not just motivated to sift through scripts made by others to figure out how the quest flags on those are set.
In any case this would be a long time job, so don't get your hopes up too much.
I'm still not convinced that it would be worth the effort.
Except possibly for the last part, which would enable a player to erase their own flags, to start a quest from the beginning again, if it got messed up. A script like that would only be necessary for the multistep quests, meaning a limited number.
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Except possibly for the last part, which would enable a player to erase their own flags, to start a quest from the beginning again, if it got messed up. A script like that would only be necessary for the multistep quests, meaning a limited number.
oh that would be SO awesome!!!
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There's two separate requests here that we need to whittle down to one.
1) A notepad where people can write notes which may or may not include quests. Possibly themed as a quest notebook.
2) A quest journal that automatically logs quest information for players and can be accessed offline.
Point 1 is piss easy to write. It'd just basically be a clone of something like player descriptions, with multiple pages. That or it could be handled as a new interface to the notes system with persistent notes that don't delete themselves.
Point 2 is more difficult. The easiest way is to basically have journal notes based on quest flags. So when you get the "accepted_baron_quest" flag or whatever it may be we show hints/journal entries that are linked to that quest flag in a "journal". What we'd need to do there is have a list of all quest flags, and then we'd need someone to write descriptions/journal entries for all of them.
I'd recommend for point 2 that we start with the newbie zones and zones that newbies would be in. It could probably be achieved pretty easily that way. This one is one that we can't overthink though or it'll just be too massive to get off the ground.
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Posting my thoughts about keeping newbie interest up, as requested:
- Navigation is an issue for newbies. Knowing which quests to go on next, which ones are important for progress (such as robber baron for the wand)... these are good things for a newbie to know.'
- There is a room in venture way that tells them where to start and even how to get there, transporting them to certain newbie areas, which is great. problem is, we kick newbies out of the newbie areas too early and as far as I can tell, that one little transport area in venture way is weirdly located.'
-The 5th voucher always gives newbies trouble. Perhaps we can have Apollo tell them what Helpers normally tell them about the 5th voucher "don't forget to use all of your senses". And there is the issue of the olive branch sucking as a reward. This was discussed before. Those who are new to mudding might have no idea what to do with it.
- Is there a section in the newbie area that explains which things to wear and which to wield or hold? Or even how to check what each eq is (id scroll)? That could begin to teach newbies about the worth differences between different pieces.
- More practice sessions. In my opinion, there aren't enough. I personally feel as though newbs should never be told they can't practice a skill because of practice points.'
-There could be a pamphlet or board or help info to tell them a list of things to do in what order, perhaps some good tips about which quests are good for newbie eq after school/academy'
- There seems to be a newbie arti, which I love! It seems pretty powerful, in terms of newbie eq. I don't know if this is old news and I am just finding out about it or if it is new. That gives them a chance to familiarize themselves with the concept of artis and timers.
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- There is a room in venture way that tells them where to start and even how to get there, transporting them to certain newbie areas, which is great. problem is, we kick newbies out of the newbie areas too early and as far as I can tell, that one little transport area in venture way is weirdly located.'
This has already been fixed. I moved it from north of venture way to on venture way. You have to go through it to get to the other "newbie areas".
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Perhaps there could be a bulletin board put up in the newbie section so the Helpers and Imms could post helpful things to the newbs. I can see this being helpful to the newbs and it may make obsolete the need to have so many pamphlets and notes given to the newbs at the beginning of the game. We could just pint them to the board. It would be very easy to add to the board when new information comes up. Easier than, say, a newbie "What to do in what order" help file- which I would love to see happen if the newbie bulletin board isn't done.
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There's actually a board in the Seeker's guild where such info could be placed. Helper's don't have access to that board but the Seeker's leader can post things there.
And if I'm not mistaken there's already some posts there concerning the trainers and some leveling places for new players.
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I mentioned this in another thread, so I hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but my number one recommendation for keeping newbies rather than having them flee in confusing is doing what all the successful MMORPGs I can think of are doing and allow the player to see exactly what a piece of equipment does just by looking at it.
Everyone likes powering up, but forcing people to hunt for changes in their Score sheet seems like a needless complication. This is especially so given the wonderful variety of zones that there are to explore in 4D.
[On a much more minor note, I agree that the final helper voucher in Quest Academy is too hard to find. The "smell" command is almost never used. In fact, in most rooms where the room description specifically mentions odor, the "smell" command reports nothing unusual. Also, I don't understand how it is possible to solve the first quest in the quest academy without saying "solution". Is there some clue I am missing, for instance, regarding the fact that you should say "hail" in the prehistoric world?]
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In the Medieval part of the 4D school, you would possibly have come across the greetings needed in all 4 dimensions.
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In the Medieval part of the 4D school, you would possibly have come across the greetings needed in all 4 dimensions.
That's good. However, I think this quest is problematic.
If I forgot something that was made clear in 4D school, that's one thing. It is fair to expect players to know things that were made clear in MUD school (like that you say "May the force be with you" in the future)
On the other hand, if this is really just something that I might possibly have picked up in 4D school, I don't think that it is a good idea for the first quest in quest academy to hang on it, at least, not without a clue to lead me back to 4D school to pick up this information.
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Yeah I think it would be fair to put some more info in that room. Maybe an extra line in each of their dialogues telling you how to greet one of the others? That way you only have to remember one greeting from the school.