Messages

16

Crafting Main Board / Re: Player Response to Crafting FAQ?

« on: January 30, 2015, 08:24:07 pm »

Personally, I wasn't saying to not limit the number of skills people can have - and it's always easier to up the number than to lower them at a later point in time.  I was just pointing out that people will make alts so they don't have to depend/trust anyone else with their stuff.

The trust issue happens when you have people pulling stupid things all the time so you never know who you can trust because their next "big trick" when you give them a gold coin or the components to make a hilt, could be "ha!  the trick is, you shouldn't have done that, now the (coin or resources) are mine."  Don't remember who used to do something akin to that in recall to "teach" newbies not to give tokens away.  It was very handy on teaching people to never trust anyone.  OH, and no, whoever it was never got me, but only because I saw them do it to someone else first.

I like the player shop aspect of it, but there are times you'll want someone that is on to work on your stuff so you can have it faster - and that's when the trust issue comes in.  I give you my stuff and hope you're as good as your word and do your thing and give it back...  But, I'm also not saying there needs to be a system in so you don't have to trust people.  As Bane said, if someone keeps stiffing people, it'll get around and their reputation will become moot.

I also understand locking the main thread- in theory, but whether wading there, here or elsewhere, you're still going to be wading through posts... well.. provided more people talk about this.  And then, to talk about that, I have to either have printed it out so I can read it and comment on it or basically have written everything I want to say in my word program to copy paste - because there's not arrowing down to the conversation to figure out what the heck I wanted to say next (which I've used about 5 times for this post).

17

Crafting Main Board / Re: Player Response to Crafting FAQ?

« on: January 24, 2015, 04:55:39 pm »

My gut reaction (back when Molly had posted what she wanted for crafting years ago) was that it was too... intense for a game, and a game that hardly had any players to boot (we go through cycles).  Though that may be because as a player I just want things to work and I want to be able to work on things on my own. 

Quite a few years ago, I played World of Warcraft for a while, taking a break from 4Dimensions and found their system to be intriguing, though you couldn't do everything yourself.  If you harvested plants - that other people needed - you could sell them, making money for you and helping out those people that couldn't harvest plants because they didn't have the skill.  They would use the plants and in turn make something that they could sell higher up the "food" list so to speak.  Basically in the end, you wanted a "low level" harvesting type skill (herbs, gems, iron, whatever) and a "high level" end type skill so in the end you weren't just supplying other people with items and then having to pay out of the nose for high level stuff, but you would be doing both. 

With WoW, there has never been the problem of having enough players to restrict skills to where you can only learn 2 of them.  There was usually always someone on that would quickly grab up the stuff you harvested, and if not, it was still in the auction system until someone bought it, or X amount of time passed when the system told you that no one was buying it so come pick it back up (and usually put it back on auction).

Right now, the problem I see with 4D is the number of players, who plays, when and how this would affect things.  What I could easily see happening in the case of lower playerbase is that someone creates X number of characters (none of which are on at the same time, so not multiplaying) and through those characters has all the skills to create their sword of everlasting life (or whatever).  Basically find yourself a hiding spot (there are many around the 4D world), make sure both characters log into said spot on login.  Create step 1 of weapon with base character, drop item, log out, log in character with step 2 and do that, drop item, log out.. continue until completed.  And I don't see any way we can stop this.  But, that is another point entirely.

Dealing with the example of the sword - I guess I've never thought of a sword being more than formed metal - formed into the blade, the pommel, the hilt.  And with that thought in mind, as a player, I would never look to find someone with the woodworking skill to craft my hilt or a stone worker to craft the pommel (though I'm sure there will be help files for such questions, I'm just not seeing it coming naturally to people - and never having made my own sword and all the movies, shows making it look like they're all made out of metal - I would question the reality of it).

I would hope that anything that had to go through multiple steps would be "worth" more than something that has to go through only one or two.  Using the example of the robe, there are 5 "necessary" steps and 2 "optional" steps listed.  If the sword above only has to go through 3 steps (only an example, I'm sure it's more) shouldn't the 5 step robe be "worth" more in the end and by that I mean be more useful to a player than the sword.

And the last bit would be how "time consuming" all this crafting will be.  Am I going to have to wait through 1-2 minutes of lines of scripts telling me what I'm doing every time I do the same step?  How long before someone starts going "yeah, yeah.. I get it... I'm forming a pommel for a sword..."  And how many times do we think it's going to take players before they just either start zoning out or, in most cases, figuring out a way to make their own browser scripts to basically "bot" the thing because 1) it's quicker and 2) it's boring to read it every time.  To make my point, who here reads through the trip on the boat to RIP in time every time they go there by boat?  And how many of you have said "it's so boring", or "it takes too long"?

In the end, I would hope that EVERY crafted item would be of much more value than any item you buy directly from a store - and most of the basic items you get from mobs.

I'm not bashing crafting at all, really.  I want to see it.  It's been promised since before I joined 4Dimensions.  I do think that everybody shouldn't be able to have all the skills because it's about helping each other as players and for some of us getting us out of our "I want to do it on my own" shell.  There has to be a good reason for me to hunt down Bane, so he can create a part of something for me, because in the end, I have to trust he's going to give it back after he's done his step (which is why player ran shops would be a good idea).

My 25 cents.  Take it or leave change, if you please.

18

Crafting Main Board / Player Response to Crafting FAQ?

« on: January 24, 2015, 04:28:47 pm »

I think it odd to lock a post that you want comments on, so we'll just do the basics of what the post seems to be we're looking for in relation to the Crafting skills being worked on.  Here were the questions at the end.  Please feel free to comment on any of these, or anything else you feel should be considered.

    How Realistic Crafting Should Be
    How Players Learn Crafting Skills
    The Limit A Player Can Learn
    Leveling The Skills
    Trading Crafted Items
    Balancing Crafted Items
    Types Of Crafts

19

Crafting Main Board / Re: CRAFTING FAQ'S

« on: January 24, 2015, 04:25:51 pm »

Prom, I think part of that is because this post is locked and it becomes too much work to create a new topic when it's this topic you want to talk about.  So.. I guess I'll create one - unless someone's beat me to it - without it being any of the secondary boards to it.

20

Code Change Announcements / Re: Some Code Changes Jan - 2015

« on: January 19, 2015, 07:16:50 pm »

We need a like button like facebook has.

 

21

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: PVP

« on: January 19, 2015, 07:15:46 pm »

I am thinking that Perzed items should have a 0% chance of dropping to be looted.  And with that thought, I'll go back to reading the rest of your message.

22

News & Announcements / Re: Weekly Puzzle / Trivia contest

« on: September 10, 2014, 03:40:36 pm »

Yeah, pay for ties! 

23

News & Announcements / Re: Weekly Puzzle / Trivia contest

« on: September 09, 2014, 08:01:52 pm »

You mean 90's bands is not the same as bands of the 90's?  I know... you're going to say it's because I gave you multiple guesses, but truthfully when no one's answering to let anyone know whether they're on the right track or not, and someone has to leave, it's all I can do - since the last time "more detail" was needed.  Oh, and I don't get credit for Smashing Pumpkins - that wasn't my guess, check your note again.  Though I know I guessed R.E.M for the last one.  And there is no way you can tell me someone guessed before I did.. There was no one on doing the puzzle except me until I started guessing (and getting nothing in response) until Rosey showed up and then no one until after I sent my note and left.  I also take credit for Pearl Jam - that was the first one I guessed.  Nine Inch Nails was the second - and the one I used as an example to try to teach Rosey how the game is played.

Here is the note for all to see - includes the time sent, though I was guessing right after Pixie posted it - but again.. no response....  Can't rule against me for that.

       From: Kvetch
    Subject: puzzle
     Posted: Sun Sep  7 22:00:17 2014
         To: pix vegas loria calypso
=================================================
If you're not even going to be here to let us know whether or not we have the
answers right, why post it (other than my complaining)?
category is one of the following:
musicians, bands, bands of the 80's, bands of the 90's, or something similar.
1) Green Day
2) Nirvana
3) Pearl Jam
4) Nine Inch Nails
5) Cheap Trick
6)  Dunno.. currently drawing a blank
7) Alice In Chains
R. E. M.

The reason for my multiple guesses on category was this:  1) I confused Green Day with Green Jelly (Three Little Pigs), which I knew was before 1990 and I was sure R.E.M had been around for a while (they have - first album released in 1983).  And if my cheap trick guess had been right then 90's would have been out of it completely.   Though, I did guess the 90's because no one was telling me anything different.

So, the count should go like this:

Category: Kvetch - bands of the 90's
1) Kvetch - Green Day
2) Kvetch - Nirvana
3) Kvetch - Pearl Jam
4) Kvetch - Nine Inch Nails
5) whoever said smashing pumpkings - probably Tad
6) Tadrielith - Radiohead
7) Kvetch - Alice in Chains
Kvetch - R.E.M.
That gives Kvetch 7 and Tad 2.  Shoot.. I'll even give him the category since I "didn't word it right" or something so: Kvetch 6, Tad 3.

24

News & Announcements / Re: Newbie Tabard and Helper Whistle changes

« on: September 03, 2014, 07:48:22 pm »

The room to load the olive branch/tokens happens to be the same room where you post the name of the newbie and how many vouchers they turned in.  Yes, that is The Office Of The Newbie Helpers.  The commands are simply voucher1, voucher2, voucher3, voucher4, voucher5, depending on the number of vouchers.  Long time ago in a galaxy far far away (back before Cati was a helper - so like 7 years?) it seems there was a mob that you had to go to to get the olive branch, but that was changed by Durgan so everything is done in the one room.

25

General Discussions / Re: Random idea about crafting

« on: September 03, 2014, 07:41:56 pm »

Here's my idea: why don't we do a crafting system?

Hey.. neat idea....

26

News & Announcements / Re: Newbie Tabard and Helper Whistle changes

« on: September 02, 2014, 11:01:17 pm »

yeah, clarification on this is needed.  I tried back in February when it was the "mini leaflet" when everyone was asking me and I didn't know hardly anything about the new changes.  AGain, new changes and I don't know hardly anything about them.

Because the reward for completing the mini leaflet (thus the tabard now) was the advance in level then something else should be for the vouchers (even though that is part of the tabard).

Here's the stats on the olive branch:

Name: 'an olive branch', Aliases: olive branch beam
Material: [base-material] VNum: [21431], RNum: [ 8627], Type: weapon, IDNum: 1552105, SpecProc: None
Timer: -1 mud hours. Expires in: Timer hasn't been started yet!
L-Des: A large olive beam lies here, one end blackened and sharpened to a point.
Extra descs: [olive branch beam] [tag] [back]
Can be worn on: TAKE WIELD
Set char bits : NOBITS
Extra flags   : undonateable unsellable
Weight: 4, Value: 0, Cost/day: 0, Timer: -1, Min level: 0
In room: Nowhere, In object: None, Carried by: Kvetch, Worn by: Nobody
, In Locker: Nobody
VAR: 0 Todam: 10d10, Message type: 14, Length: 40cm
Balance: (16) ====0====================
This balance gives the weapon 0 speed, -1 accuracy and 0 evasion.

Affections: +2 to Strength, +25 to Maxhit
Script information:
Global Variables: None
Global context: 0

  Trigger: Seekers !use, VNum: [21412], RNum: [ 5201]
  Trigger Intended Assignment: Objects
  Trigger Type: Wear, Numeric Arg: 199, Arg list: None

Basically, the script won't let them use the branch after they remort - so it's really only going to be good from the time they find all 5 vouchers until they finish the tabard quests.

There used to be a second item that no one knew about so it was never handed out.  It was a pendant.  All the pendant did was cast minor identify and the use (or lack thereof) of that spell is probably why it would never have been chosen compared to the olive branch.  Can someone come up with an idea to change the pendant to to make it useful?  Something comparable with the olive branch that used to be handed out?

And I know it's been said that various classes should get the choice of different items - because a spellcaster really isn't going to want the same thing a fighter would want.  So, if anyone is keen on the idea, we can open up a topic for that as well.  You have the basic idea of what the item we hand out can do - so what would you want to see in the game that's comparable for each class?

So, after we get this done, the reward for the vouchers would be (according to the helper board from long ago):
The helper rewards are as follows:
1 voucher     1 brass     400,000 coins
2 vouchers    2 brass     800,000 coins
3 vouchers    3 brass   1,200,000 coins
4 vouchers    4 brass   1,600,000 coins
5 vouchers    5 brass   2,000,000 coins + olive branch (or whatever item out of the list they want)

27

General Discussions / Re: Finding player peak periods

« on: August 30, 2014, 09:50:20 am »

In response to the question, I have two versions of an answer:

1) Since there should only be one player or one alt on at a time, it should only count as one person anyway - since you'd have to log out your "main" to play your "alt"
2) Seeing as there is no way for the system to know that alt and main are same player, there could be double counting.
3) Unless we went by host number where you count the host # each character is from and assume that any that log in during the same hour from the same host is the same player.
4) There are some hosts that host multiple players (think mudconnect.com) so #3 could result in fewer counts and still not be accurate.

So, in my answer I have managed to not answer your question.

28

Building Board / Re: GlobalTime triggers

« on: August 27, 2014, 06:24:13 am »

It seems the time not passing thing is a way to save cpu or some such - so that part is meant to happen.  It probably does happen on the game port, but there is rarely no-one on.  If nothing else, Shorty's usually invis and hanging out.  Once I did a copyover yesterday the script seemed to work fine and there wasn't any way *I* was able to break it.  But it brings up the question on why it broke before (so quickly after a copyover) and how often will it break?  Rynald, trying about the same thing on his home port, had it break, did a copyover and it worked.  It seems the answer to "It broke" is copyover, but if it's just going to keep breaking that's not a good answer.  I've not checked in with Parnassus today to see if she managed to break it after I left yesterday, so we'll see later.

29

Building Board / Re: GlobalTime triggers

« on: August 26, 2014, 03:38:33 pm »

Seems we're finding even more weirdness because of this script.  As far as I can tell, the build port doesn't advance time when someone's not logged into it.  I've never checked before so don't know if it's a new thing.  Now when I log out, it seems to be the same time when I log back in.  I thought maybe I had just not waited long enough (after all 72 seconds may not be a long time, but when you're waiting for something it can take forever), so I made sure to time myself on another program for 3 minutes (didn't want the whole 24 hours to go around for the same reason) and logged back in.  should have been at least 2 hours later, but it was the same time as when I logged out.

30

Building Board / Re: GlobalTime triggers

« on: August 26, 2014, 12:20:46 pm »

Update: I did a copyover of the build port (yesterday I had also done a copyover and crash so it's not like the port had been up a really long time when we were trying it today), and the script is now working fine - for the time being.  WE'll see if it still works when Parn gets back on later tonight.