Messages

271

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 24, 2009, 02:46:13 pm »

Currently, every class is pretty self sufficient. Everyone has tons of money to buy tons of great potions/scrolls/wands and everyone is able to use all those things. Also at least half of the time you have partial skills from two classes as you work your way up the remort system. There is no need to rely much on anyone else.

Yup, pretty self sufficiant, but what we're looking for is more specialization so as to draw people. What happenes is that we bring people to instead of a "stock system" that's very bare bones to something that mudders/gamers generally understand.

5)   The pk system shouldn’t be that a 60 time remorted player can kill and full loot a 2 time remorted player. Yah, yah I know you all went through it and survived it. But considering the work it takes to fully re-equip with quest equipment, the current system isn’t worth joining. PK adds an element of conflict and excitement to the game and a reason to try role playing.

That is going to be the most difficult change that will probably never happen. The reason being is that dmg, and HP are way out of whack in a lot of sense. Ideas are being brought up about this in the future as to creating an rememdy...but don't hold your breath. The split second PK battles have been with 4D since their birth...so very hard to change/fix

2)   Keep the existing 8 classes or do the tree thing, but after remorting, start fresh with a new class (no carry over skills) so each class will be pure and unique and their skills/spells might be requested by someone in another class.

This is the old code system. You just remort, change classes, rmeort, change classes, and so on. no tiers just remorts. We can't try and force people to rely on each other again. Back then you could, but it was a different world of gaming. Everquest was just coming out, and so on. We were a simplier folk!

272

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 23, 2009, 11:55:21 pm »

I wouldn't do the shadow magic thing only because shadow magic itself is aligned based.

ERm.. who says Shadow magic HAS to be alignment based? 

Well, if you know anything about Shadow magic, it IS evil. You can't say otehrwise. The very EMBODIMENTS of Good and Evil is Light and Darkness. These are very two different entities you're dealing with here. Shadow is evil. there is no way around it.

Not to be a dick, but instead to trying to challenge my "views" on things, I would advise actually looking into this kind of stuff. When it comes down to it, there are very clear rules and definitions that have become universal over the past 30 years of systems writing, and clarifications. I don't make this stuff up. My input isn't single system based, and it never has been. I hold a lot of knowledge in multiple systems that despite their very different worlds, and so on still abide the bare bones rules of how the cosmos work, be it fantasy, dark fantasy, or sci-fi. There are some very clear universal definitions.

-Toch

273

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 23, 2009, 02:18:33 pm »

I wouldn't do the shadow magic thing only because shadow magic itself is aligned based. Should we implement something like that, then what happens is we'd cause alignment issues. The Shadow Plane, and Shadow Weave type stuff which is actually featured in my zone, does site the sources and so on.

However! We COULD in fact base spell affects off of alignment. Say if your alignment is -100 and lower, your magic would in fact be twisted. This would make things very interesting because if you're evil, you'll cast shadow magic, and if you're good, you'll cast well..normal good magics. I think that would be the best idea.

The reason for this suggestion is that I want the two sides of a holy warrior displayed. Melee/Priest. Both are priests, but one of course is more warrior than anything. The holy warrior bit will actually implement some VERY cool stuff. Here are the skill examples I have for you on the melee side:

Charge: Think of it as behead, but it requires a mount, and it will knock the person down.
Rear: This will rear your mount back into position for another charge.
Crucify: (my favorite) Kind of like scalp, but instead you nail the body to a cross.

Now imagine if you will, assume your alignment is currently at evil, then you'd nail someone on a cross upside down. heheh that's pretty flippin' evil. As long as you have a corpse you can do it.

274

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 22, 2009, 05:40:48 pm »

I'd like to put in my (yet again) formal request for a system like this to be honestly looked into. Certainly The 4d Staff is not alone and there are many like turin, Horus, Xeriuth, Devram, and myself who are willing to help in whatever was we can. As Turin said, the system IS stagnant.

I’d very much like to keep the T4 system. I feel like it’s almost a never ending road sometimes, which is nice because I’ll stop for a bit….then pick it up again. I enjoy long hard roads.
I’d also want to keep the 4d unique classes, and make them a t4 advancement because they’re very much a 4D staple. The other “stock” classes would be basic.
Here is how I’d like the T4 aspect to work (detailed):

No big change structure wise. We keep the system we have now, rename the tiers, and add a few extra things. If you’re wondering about the “merlin” deal on the T4 druid side. Merlin was the title for arch druids. Believe it or not, wizard was also a title for Druids in medieval times, but has LONG since become skewed. Anyway, they are right on par with each other in rank.
For theif you’ll see I put bard as the T2 and up. The reason being is that bards can be as crooked as the next cutpurse. The only difference is that bards had musical talent latent with magic…assassins…not so much. Assassins are far more "hands on/Garrote on".  It’s fun because you get “rock star” at T3 which is sweet because of our Future aspect in the game, Slannesh and all that. Yeah, it is cool in my opinion, and of course ends with 4D‘s Gypsy (as it should). Very 4D. Cleric has it’s very clear roads, either you’re a holy man/woman who will bring down the THUNDA from up high!….or you’re the holy warrior who will defend your religion to the death…AND BRING DOWN DA THUNDA! (thunder people...thunder)
We need a separate tree for Esper of course, and so there you have it. Warrior has it’s three classes combined. I never truly understood the different between hunter and ranger, because they’re both very much in tune with nature, and should understand the importance of balance between predator and prey, so I put those two together, which ends in Pathfinder which is the ultimate rank for tree huggers who are in tune with nature, and are masters of stealth, hunt, and navigation. The other side of course is the martial artist side (for you Horus, hehe).

Starting from scratch you learn JUST the basic skills, and a taste of what’s to come. This way you can get the idea of where you’re headed. Once you’ve made your choice, the basic skills stay with you, along with your “taste”. They will remained unchanged when you remort. Any extra points will carry over. As you advance you will keep certain abilities until finally you reach your T4 where you’ll have a complete tree like Horus proposes bearing some skills from the previous remorts, and then having a much larger tree unique and befitting a master of your field. Everyone has their own niche now. Casters have magic, warriors have expertise, rogues have their trade, and psychics have their mental know-how. Each one brings something new to the table.

This is the kind of system I honestly believe 4D could really use. We include the skill tree into our Tier system, creating our defined individual pathways, and I honestly believe people will come and STAY. I do believe that the 4D Quest aspect should be integral to this tier system. As you go up, before you remort, you must quest at your respectful guildhall which has been hidden somewhere deep within 4D’s labyrinth of creativity. To advance, you have to seek out the new Guildhall, quest, and then progress. We lose nothing, but gain a lot.

We really could use this kind of referbishment. As it stands our classes are not balanced, messy, and to be honest- slapped together as a quick idea smoeone thought up over lunch. I am a big fan of tiers, and pathways. For me, I almost beleve the more tiers the better because at least I'm doing something.

Finally, SHOULD you for whatever reason decide you don't like where you are.. There is a simple function>> Reroll. Just type Reclass (T1 class) (password), and confirm... BAM! You're now T1 again. Now, because we're using the skill tree system, we include the funtion REROLL. What you do is you pay a token/rp points/trade points/whatever AT your guildmanster (this is automatically deducted from your bank), type reroll (pw)(confirm), and ZZZZzzzIP, all of the points you have previously invested (aside form the basics taht will never change..cause they're basic) have default back to "total unspent". This allows you to play with different tree combos, and so on.

Okay, that's it for now. This is long enough (sorry everyone). I'm interested to see where this list takes us. 4D needs to be revitilized.    -Toch

275

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 22, 2009, 04:16:44 am »

I love it when you talk dirty to me

276

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: grouping / gm / heal spells and potions

« on: February 22, 2009, 04:12:28 am »

I'd like to tossle their tassles.

277

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Skill Tree System

« on: February 22, 2009, 04:11:31 am »

mMMm I love skill trees.

For martial artists you can create glove weapons for fists o d00m if they dun wanna use swords 'n such.

278

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: grouping / gm / heal spells and potions

« on: February 21, 2009, 12:58:25 pm »

This isn't about a different mud, and this certainly isn't about rl logic. This is standard gameplay logic. HEARSAY does not decide your alignment. You do. And items and skills/spells do not listen to hearsay since they can't, they're not sentient, and so on and so forth. You can say an item might be, and if so, script it. I was a shit talking piece of armor that rags on me for being Drow. You say an item is sentient, I wioll believe it, but I was randon talking scripts since all sentient items communicate mentally, and even attempt to control you. (this is a fact, go check gameplay sources such as dnd, shadowrun, and so on...sentient items choose, manipulate, and control whenever possible...unless good aligned but even THEN they try to guide you towards their own value system and logic.)

Skills/Spells are completely different. They are an extension of you therefore ARE Evil/Good depending on HOW you've put them to use. This isn't about a different mud. This is about logic. 4D's logic for align based abilities is the worst idea I have EVER heard. For goodness sakes, you need to be EVIL to cast evil eye....but you don't have to be good to cast Absolve...makes a lot of sense...NOT.

Align based anything NOT spell/skill should be left alone, but the skill/spell thing really needs to be changed. And honestly static align was the dumpest idea in the world. I am evil, I RP evil..but my align says +150 because I have anti-evil eq...makes a lot of sense people *snickers* seriously static align is stupid. Gimmie a staionary align any day. I'd love to walk around as a Neutral Evil. At least then it's true when you cast detect align and go "Holy shit, he really IS evil"

279

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Class System Overhaul (Aye or Nay)

« on: February 21, 2009, 02:11:29 am »

I am down for an overhaul, but not going to a classes system. I like the idea of classes because it creates a kind of individualism. Gives everyone their own special niche.

What we need is a true tier system that allows everyone to choose their own walk of life. I wanna see REAL casters, warriors, and rogues.

           
Warrior >> Ranger/Swordsman/Hunter
Priest(Cleric actually) >> Priest/Crusader/Avatar
Mage >> Enchanter/Witch(Warlock)/Shaman
Rogue (Thief actually) >> Assassin/Gypsy/Cut-purse (or something)
Bard (HELL YES)>> Jungalier(I think thats how its spelled)/Rock Star/Disc Jockey (hehe)

51 levels per tier. Either you make it a two tier system or you COULD keep it a 4 tier system, and then just have everyone play everything along their chosen proffession list! Then, why not allow people to once they've hit the Final tier get a GM title for the given path, and get a brand new name for whatever class it is. It'd be way awesome. Otherwise, a nice 2 tier system where people start off with the above (basic) >> (final). But then again a (basic) >>(progressive)>>(final) works too. I'd love to see an actual class system rather than our cluster fuck of classes.

Now if people don't think GM was the final goal...I think you're wrong. It most certainly is the final goal whether Virisin says so or not. It most certainly is. In terms of class structure.

personally the updated code was a quick copy and paste of ideas someone wrote in MS Word, and didn't truly think anything through. I honestly think so. With everything that's gone in so far, I tend to believe it more and more because I've never seen a series of less thought out ideas implemented so quickly before up until 4d decided to do it. This is what happen when you have what you THINK is a good idea, and not bother to ask the pbase about it.

280

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: grouping / gm / heal spells and potions

« on: February 21, 2009, 01:58:40 am »

OH and also for the align thing. ITEMS and SPELLS/SKILL shouldn't "consider" you evil/good. So who cares what the world thinks of you? Items know based upon your alignment in your SOUL...not reputation. What the hell do created items care about hearsay?...

-Toch

281

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: grouping / gm / heal spells and potions

« on: February 20, 2009, 05:11:31 pm »

Okay, a couple of things:

First off, my bad grouping works just fine. I hadn't heard otherwise since I last posted about grouping last month. Meep.

Secondly, alignment. Though I understand your arguement Kvetchy, it's a weak on. The reason being is that poeple don't DECIDE your alignment. You do. Whom you are affiliated with does. If I kill everyone without second thoughts as to them being good or bad, but soley for my own person gain...guess what..I'm EVIL. In fact EVIL is all about personal gain. If you think about it, we kill good and bad alike to gain levels...we're all technically evil hehehehe.

but seriously, static align is silliness. If we have it, then align reqed stuff shouldn't exist...because I have to watch where my align is in a big fight because god forbid I start having 60% of my eq zapping me in the middle of a fight. Either we have a stationary align system, or not. Align reqed skills/spells doens't make any sense what-so-ever. Such things should never exist.

Vampy-

     I totally agree that the drainblood skill was way to easy to get...assuming people even went to explore it. I honestly think that drainblood while active should be active at all times, BUT it's a skill that involve lag...think of it as a heal, taht is slightly better but diffiult to use, and is a skill like any other. It should be much harder to get in my opinion, but it's nice to have.
   Weapons- Vampy weapons were originally created to replace heals somewhat. The logic that heals are too depandant upon is crazy. heals were created for individuals. Though grouping is wonderful, you cannot hope to enforce grouping in a mud that has little to no PBAse. When we get an average of 15-30 players on all of the time, then you can start thinking about enforcing grouping. However it's not fair, nor is it likely to work. You're just hurting what pbase we have now. Heals, and vampy have always been an important aspect of any and all muds, even group heavy ones.
   The Vampy flag for weapons really does need to be fixed because I can only carry so many flipping heals, and heal myself for so long. Believe it or not but I'm not a caster *gasp*, I'm a ranger who needs to spend more of his time typing KICK than c 'cure light' the entire time. It's not sufficiant. It's not even practical.

GMs- I've been pushiong for GM class specifics for almost two years now, and sadly only now is my favorite someone on the same page as me.
        I have happily written the system over and over again on the forums, I think three...maybe four times now. I would LOVE to see GM's for class specific areas. GM of Warriors = Some cool name like Grandmaster of blahblah or something. They get their own special set of skills/spells. GMs got gimped by taking away certain T1 skills. First you take away T4..okay fine, I'm down...by T1? You gotta be kidding me. GM's were supposed to be the best of the best because they took the time to do what most everyone else refuses to do out of laziness, MASTER EVERY CLASS. Man, you took away T1 basic skills form us...now we're nolonger masters. great job on gimping. GM's were supposed to be unique. On top of that Dino's, and DP were built for creating challenge for those of us who aren't totally challenge by ourselves. I can thank you in a lot of ways because I know now taht nobody will ever be able to get the Gojira stuff taht took HOURS to nab by myself. I know that nobody will ever be able to survive it by themselves (tho sonya designed it to be a solo ordeal). Knowing that, I can say that through my great hard work, I and my fellows within this SOLO minority lay claim to that fact. We took on the UBER mobs ourselves with none to support us but our wits, and nice set of balls.
        Yeah, unique class specific GMs would be awesome, and I think they should be attained through questing, AND leveling. I think it should be hard, and something to be proud of.

To sum up:

    I was wrong about grouping.
    Align req skills/spells is stupid.
    Static align sux
    GMs should get all their t1 skills/spells back.
    Vampy flag for gear needs to get fixed.
    Heals weigh too much. Make them lighter! (please?)
    I love you.

-Toch

282

Suggestions & Ideas / Re: The IMMs dream of 4d: I want to know

« on: January 24, 2009, 05:01:48 pm »

First I'll gladly answer your question about where I was for the last year: I was busy taking 21 credit hours per term for the last year so as to graduate early rather than in four years. Such an amount of baggae is like having a full time job on top of a second job. Little time, little sleep, and a lot of work. That's exactly where I have been.

Second: I think the brunt of my original post was missed due to sensativity. There is a point I am trying to make here. And I have fully acknowledged that our mud is THE place for exploration, and question. We're top-notch. There should be no dissapointment here whatsoever. What I have been trying to get at for years now, along with other older players like myself who knows what really KEEPS people, is this: We need a cleaner system.

We need a class system that actually creates MUD diversity.
We need a better PK system that isn't 3 hits and you're dead based upon what eq someone has. PK should be skill based, not eq based. DMG is way too high. PK should be fun, and slightly draw out. Not 5 seconds. The gladiators were perfect for the most part because battles actually LASTED, and PK was actually fun again.
Our magic system needs re-tweaking. It's boring, and lame. You have alignment based spells that should NOT exist. No spell should be alignment based, ever.
The Alignment system is not the greatest either. Why should my actions decides how I morally feel? If I kill an ewok, I'm evil...but if I kill a Storm Trooper, I'm suddenly the good guy? Alignment should be something you just choose from the start of things. Its very simple: nuetral: good/true/evil, Good: lawful/neutral/chaotic, Evil: lawful/neutral/chaotic. This forces people to choose what they want to start out as, and maybe along the road if they decide they want to RP good guys or bad guys, and change their alignment, seek out a RPL and hold some sessions, get have the alignment changes.

I have countlessly offered a cleaner, and in depth class system that is based upon reclasses, with the ability to advance to GM OF given class field Example: Warrior > Battlerager > War Monger, Mage > Enchanter >  Mystic.
And as anyone versed in this kind of system knows after you completed Warrior and move on to something greater, you get anywhere from two to four choices. Each class has something unique to bring to the field, and people have their own niche.
I have also offered suggestions for our current system to be midofied so as to create unique GMS based upon what choices they make. For example: Bobby has mastered Thief and Ranger, buy going T2 in both classes he has met the reqs for a GM quest to become a Shadowstepper, once the quest is comeplete he starts working his way up to the T4 GM class, and is happy-honkie-dory.
The system above is a perfectly viable system. Both of them are in fact. One would require overhaul, and I'm CONFIDENT that there would be players willing to help out in order to build the first system.

There has been way to much gimping in the past with heals. They're not worth spit, and are heavy as all hell. I understand that some people were hoarding certain items and so on, but instead of giving them no real reason to hoard anything by just making all heals standard and not lame, nobody would hoard. Instead they were gimped, and we complained. We were told "well group more then, get a healer". We did, and then grouping was gimped.

Grouping is a vital part of 4D. When we could group, we were happy, and closer. Aside from quests where we could not group, we were happy doing runs in dinos or what have you. This is the only place that I have ever seen Staff actually complain, and GIMP grouping. EVER. This is not how it's supposed to work!

People wonder why the majority of players hang out at recall: We hang out because it's not lonely. We like company. By gimping the grouping feature, we found another way. This of course doesn't speak for those who like being alone, but I myself am a social creature, and like to talk. God forbid we ever talk on gossip, because if you do people call it spam instead of turning it off. This is the ONLY mud where I have experienced this kind of behavior.

I am not attacking you, and there should be no reason for dissapointment. I am doing my job as a player to ask the hard questions.
You are wrong in assuming it's OUR job as the player base to attract and keep players. That's not how it works. People stay based upon the first impression of the mud, the players come second. Show them something more than just reading and questing. People want diversity, and feel like what they are accomplishing within the game they can be proud of. Quests aren't enough. Gypsy and Mage are just about the only guys out there that have any kind og prospect for money/tokens. And I don't know if you've noticed at all, but NEITHER funds flow anymore. Nobody pays for anything. MOney is not needed, and tokens are so three years ago. We hoard them to invest in houses, and pets. Not equipment, or equipment mods. there is no supply and demand.

the strong and weak elements idea was a good one, but not complete. Spells being impacted by elements, makes sense. But what about element based weaponry? What about element-based MOBS? Oh look, it's a frost giant, I need a fiery dagger to fight him! It's an idea that is incomplete, but it's a good one. We need more expansion and clarification.

What I'm saying here is the draw players we need more than just neato-unique questing systems,and a couple friendly faces. These newer players need more. You want to compete with graphics muds and such, I'm telling you how. We ALREADY have an edge, and you don't even realize it. We are just missing a vital piece to this puzzle.

I am happy to sit down with anyone and write a system, hammer it out, and and hand it over at any time. We could do all of the work in creating the ideas behind the skills/spells/abilities. All we would need is a coder willing to work with us. I can speak japanese, not code. But I can also write and create.

I don't know much about advertising, clearly. If we can't do it in particular ways, well let's work with keeping all the new ones that do pop on. It's going to take more than some hello's, and quests. People want grouping and diversity. Provide us with our special niche, and I garauntee the pbase will pick up quickly.

-Tocharaeh
  No Spin Zone

283

Suggestions & Ideas / The IMMs dream of 4d: I want to know

« on: January 22, 2009, 02:50:10 pm »

Okay, this is a very serious quest I am posing to the 4D staff.

What is YOUR vision of 4d?
here's another:
HOW will your vision impact the playerbase?
one more:
How you do propose we ATTRACT other players?

These are very important and crucial questions and I'll tell you why. I don't see people staying here for very long. We have to compete with newer better graphics based mmporgs out there, and newsflash, they're growing fast. Not only that but aside from probably the most unique and amazing quest system out there (most everyone else uses AUTUOQUEST, and eq is easy to find if you're powerful to kill the baddies), but we also have probably the most descriptive mud out there. Really, people don't go out of their way to go as in depth as we do.

However, that's all we got. I'm sorry but that's not enough to DRAW anyone in for very long save the select few who don't mind not having any in depth class system. The select few who don't mind walking around by themselves, because let's face it we are NOT the most friendly mud out there, and we're made up of either recall junkies, and/or loners.

How to you ;propose to fix this? Our PK system sucks. The use of heals is rediculous. And our class/skill/spell system isn't something to be proud about. It really isn't.

this isn't a 4D bashing session because you nall know I love it very much. it takes love to say all of this. I can log on "bigger" muds and always see a player base average of 60-94 players a day. Granted we don't NEED that many, but I for one would love so see 20-40. It's dead, it's quiet (too quiet), and there is no substance there for RP events, and clan wars. What do you propose do to about this?

Building is not an issue. We know it comes down to coding being the issue, but we need to do something that puts us in our own special niche that DRAWS players. We should throw ourselves up on wiki like many of the muds have, get added to the Z(C)MUD, GMUD (and whatever other clients) mud LISTS, and start advertising. Poeple need to find us. Mud Connector isn't going to cut it.

Our class system need to be cleaned up. It's messy, and nothing to be proud of. We need DIFFINITIVE classes, and TRUE professions (class based) that give every player a unique job in the world. We need SUPPLY and DEMAND. We need these things. believe it or not its THESE things that DRAW players.

What I'm asking from IMMs and other players in input, and ideas. What I don't want to hear is "Well just because others muds are doing it doesn't mean we should", and other such excuses (not answeres/responses, they are excuses). I want to hear true answers and ideas.

I love 4D, I always have and always will. I am willing to do anything for this mud given I have enough time. I am here for YOU.

Tocharaeh