Author Topic: Concept for Enhancing Clans  (Read 23751 times)

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Offline Mordecai

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Concept for Enhancing Clans
« on: May 06, 2008, 05:32:12 am »
This is just a preliminary brain dump of this idea.

A few changes I think would work for clans:
Adding physical entrance, so that it is possible to walk in to a clan.
Removing all commodities from a clan.
Enabling a clan points system (these are similar to tokens for players, to buy commodities with).
Allowing clans to influence certain mobs and shops to join their faction or cause.
Having a morale system, that encourages more NPC clan members to join the clan.
Enabling an inter-clan war system.

Currently clans get certain commodities:
- Healer
- Recall Item
- Crest
- Board
- Potion Shop (Healing potion, remove curse wand, strength potion)
- Utility Shop (Container, food, drink)
- Alignment room good
- Alignment room evil
- Clan House
- Clan Prison
- Clan Meeting Room
- Fountain
- Uniform / Rp Eq
- Exit to a distant zone
- NPC Clan members

I suggest these as additional commodities, which all need code support, and will explain why after:
- Remove recall item, and add a coded recall room in each clan.
- Clan Entry Guards
- Clan Gate
- Trophy Room
- Weapon Racks
- Armor Shelving
- Remove Alignment room that does not fit with clans alignment.
- Shop to sell goods collected by the clan members

Shops + Factions
A code change to shops so that keep track of how much they sell.
For a percentage of this amount, and if the shop is sympathetic with the clan alignment, the shop can have its loyalties bought by a clan.
This purchase is for one month at a time, and at the end of that month can't be bribed by any clan for a random period of up to one week.
A percent of all purchases made at the shop while it has been 'bribed' or 'influenced' or 'seduced' at this time go towards the clan funds.
The shop while bribed will not sell items to any clan that is of opposite align (or possibly just when at war) to its current clan.
The shop mob adds to the population of the clan.

Mobs + Factions
A mob flag to allow certain Feature* mobs to join a clan faction.
This mob adds to the clan population, and if the clan is at war, will attack the opposing clan on sight.

Clan points
Points can be earned when maintaining Clan Morale, Returning a profit on shops, Recruiting members, recruiting NPC's, Token Donations, Inter-clan events / competitions / wars, Collecting trophies.
Points are used for adding new commodities to your clan.

Clan Morale
Clan NPC's will be influenced by clan loyalty, wearing clan items, clan donations, membership size, and percentage of members on in a week, bringing back and mounting trophies.
As clan morale gets higher, more NPC clan members will move in to the clan area and will actively defend it, and will pay tax/donations towards the upkeep.
Higher clan morale makes it easier to influence Feature Mobs and Shops to join your cause.

Trophy's
Certain items and Mobs can be flagged as trophys, and when found or recovered, can be taken to the clan and given to an NPC to mount in the Trophy room.
- Certain mob's scalps and heads
- Artifacts
- Items obtained at the end of a quest
- Awards like KOTM, Blue band of victory, and Horse racing

Entrance Guard
After opening the clan up so that it has an entrance you can walk in through from a zone, it will need some basic protection, such as a gate guard, or two, or three. For a small fee of course. The guards won't allow people past unless they have been killed first.

A Gate
Well, you don't have to pay for a gate and a lock, but it may help keep people who can't pick a door from getting past.

Weapon Rack
You always find good weapons you can't use on your travels, why not put them in the weapon rack, and if your clan is attacked, your NPC members will take them up to fight with.

Armor shelving
Same goes with the armor shelving, put the armor items you find on your travels in this shelving unit, and when attacked, your NPC's will wear it to defend your clan.

Cycle the clan's gains
Done on a set time cycle such as monthly at which time:
- Trophies, Armor, and Weapons are cleared.
- Rent is charged on the commodities.
- The Mob's as staff take their fees.


Things that 4d needs checked for balance before this will work:
- Levels of all aligned mobs in the game
- Check clan exits
- Check shop alignments

I need to bring up a few more points, such as how the point system works, recall points, and how clan wars happen.
But for now, I will leave it at that.


Offline Iwku

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 08:17:55 am »
I think you guys might be making too many changes at once.

Adding a physical entrance to a clan is cool.  I've often wanted that in case I lost my recall item and had to walk back. And I've wanted it just to get my bearings where my clan hall is.  The only physical entrance I've come across is for the Viking clan.

Maybe I'm not understanding, but ... "removing all commodities from a clan"??  Are you serious? I joined my clan for the leadership and was so thrilled to learn the hall had all those commodities.  That was a bonus.  The clan board is totally useful, as are all the clan hall things (shops, fountain, healer, prison, meeting room, etc). I love being able to go to my clan for a one-stop-shop and avoiding going through recall. I love my clan crest - not just for the stats, but for the symbolism of trust from my leader.

My clan hall has another type of "commodity" room that was not listed but is so useful. A lot of thought went into the reasoning of that room and we worked hard to pay for the expansions. And I wanted to put in another type of commodity room. My clan supported the decision but the imms changed and inflated the price and it wasn't highest on our priority list.  I think the commodity rooms make clan halls unique to the particular needs of a clan.  I would really hate to see those rooms go.

You suggest additional commodity things to replace the existing commodities.  I'd agree on removing the clan recall item and replacing it with a coded recall room.  People seem to change clans, even though most clan guidelines suggest that you are not suppose to change clans.  And some people end up with backdoors into their old clans possibly using recall items.  So that would be a step in the right direction for clan hall security to do away with recall items and make it coded.  And recruiting clan NPC mobs might be good.  Those guard mobs that the imms sell to protect the clan hall are pretty useless.

A clan point system is a good idea.  Currently my clan has a system like that. Maybe your system is an expanded version?  I think it should be up to the clans if they want to implement and support such a system, but imm help on this would be good.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your post, but I really would hate to see clan commodities removed.

Offline Mordecai

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 02:53:54 pm »
Firstly, too many changes at once?
This is just an idea, to be fleshed out, it isn't going in tomorrow.

And as for removing commodities, it would be made so that you could remove them, rather than you just don't have them anymore.

The goal here is for clans to be a strategic base for it's members which if run well, can make a profit and prizes for the clan.

By making the commodities i listed above, able to be toggled on or off by a clan leader, the cost of the clan upkeep will increase or decrease accordingly.

And when I say, clan NPC's, they will need to be much more powerful then your existing ones for sure, if they are to help protect your clan from raids and such.

Iwku, thanks for responding to the post, I will hopefully be able to alleviate your concerns as this idea fills out.

Offline Virisin

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 03:22:23 pm »
I like.

Offline Kvetch

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2008, 04:01:42 pm »
Iwku, You must realize that Mord's ideas either go in immediately (sometimes without notice - or at least my notice... *coughs innocently*) or they take... a while... long while.  I have learned that coder immediately seems to be greater than or equal to one or two years. ;)  (And that's if they remember).  Though, I can't complain, I make areas at about the same speed.

Kvetchy

Offline Fizban

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2008, 05:20:40 pm »
Quote
And some people end up with backdoors into their old clans possibly using recall items.

That's actually not possible. All clan recall items have scripted checks to only work for members of that particular clan. In fact making the real entrance is more or less to allow you enter other people's clan halls I'd assume.

Offline Mordecai

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2008, 05:22:43 pm »
Quote
And some people end up with backdoors into their old clans possibly using recall items.

That's actually not possible. All clan recall items have scripted checks to only work for members of that particular clan. In fact making the real entrance is more or less to allow you enter other people's clan halls I'd assume.

Yeah, it is.
So in times of clan war, both clans would be open automatically.
In time of non clan war, clans could invite people in to use the clan shops.

Offline Fizban

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 05:28:45 pm »
Quote
Yeah, it is.

Err, it is possible currently to clan hop and have entrance into several clans? Or was that referring to: "In fact making the real entrance is more or less to allow you enter other people's clan halls I'd assume. "?

Offline Mordecai

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2008, 11:37:44 pm »
Or was that referring to: "In fact making the real entrance is more or less to allow you enter other people's clan halls I'd assume. "?
That one. :)

Offline Molly

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2008, 02:15:51 am »
There is something that I really think is needed for Clans, and that is a way for the members to get rid of an inactive or otherwise bad leader. As it is, imms have to step in and do it, and that always creates unnecessary drama and accusations of favoritism. Clans should be run 100% by morts, but as it is, that isn't possible.

At present the DJ is the only Clan that provides a possibility for the CCL to challenge the CL, and take over leadership if he wins the fight. But you still need an imm to do the actual demotion. And - as Nauzhror  rightly pointed out - it isn't necessarily the strongest fighter that would make the best CL.

Leadership is more about social skills, being a 'group player', being able to inspire and motivate the members, your own personal enthusiasm, motivation and goals - and above all - being an active player. Ego-tripped players, who are mostly focused on their own goals, seldom make good Clanleaders. And inactive leaders are always detrimental to a Clan. Without an active leader a Clan dies very quickly. We have seen that happen too many times over the years, even to the most prestigious Clans. And we've also seen Clans being resurrected, as soon as someone took an interest in them and did some active recruiting.

Clans played a much larger role in 4D in the past, and it is a real pity that, with a few exceptions, they seem to have gone 'out of fashion' nowadays. Clans are good for many things; roleplay, group spirit and  social interaction, but also for intrigues, rivalry and prestige, which brings some extra spice to the game.

So what could be done?

One suggestion would be to automatically demote the CL two ranks, if they haven't logged in to the Mud for a month, and at the same time automatically promote the second in command to top level. That would get rid of the ones that just fade out and disappear without providing for their Clan.

Of course there are some people who refuse to admit to themselves and others that they actually lost interest, and would log on once a month just to keep their status. So there also needs to be a way for the Clan members to get rid of an inactive, or otherwise unsuited leaders. This could be done by some sort of member vote, where one member could initiate the vote to get rid of the CL with a special command. After that, all the active Clan members get a week or a month to vote yes or no, with a reminder that prompts them each time they log in, until they cast their vote. (The ones that still refrain, or don't log on at all, lose their vote).  Both the initiation and the voting should be anonymous, to avoid retaliation from the CL. If the majority votes yes, the CL is demoted 2 steps, and the highest in rank below is promoted to top rank instead. If the majority votes no, the CL stays in power, and the member who initiated the vote cannot activate it again for a month.

But I also have a suggestion that would sweeten the deal a bit for the retiring CL. Create a separate level for retired Clanleaders. It could be higher than the CL level, but once there, the retired CL would no longer have access to the Clan commands, like promote, demote, appfee etc. This would make it easier for a CL to retire on their own accord, when they feel that they no longer have the time and motivation to be an active leader. Keeping their status would make it easier Some Clans have several CLs, because the old ones were kept for mostly sentimental reasons. Sicilians for instance has five, of which only one is active, although Soulstar and Tocharaeh occasionally log in.

The CL should be able to promote himself to the 'Retired' Rank, but after that, he shouldn't be able to go back to being 'normal' CL on his own. The new CL should however be able to promote a retired CL back to power, if they decide that would be a good move. After all, the RL situation always plays a roll, and sometimes players do return after a long absence.

We could also put all the CLS that already left 4D at this 'retired' rank, to add to their and the Clan's status, (which would be have to be done by imm). Having a legendary player as retired CL would naturally be good PR for a Clan. However, you should only be allowed to be a retired CL of one Clan. Normally this won't be a problem, but with all the Clan-hopping going on, there are some players who have been CL  of more than one Clan. In those cases they would have to choose which Clan they'd like to grace with their name.

I am not sure if this can be coded, but my guess is that both the member vote and the 'retired' rank should be possible codewise.

So what do you think?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 12:53:27 am by Molly »

Offline erwin

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 02:32:16 am »
Sounds ok.

Only thing I see is that if, let's say, you have around 2-3 alts in the clan, then you might be able to sway the vote your way.

I suppose that can be solved by looking at the history of the character's account..what characters he/she once had, and once was in the account. Maybe by linking IP addresses too..for you can not add characters to your account if you don't want to.

Perhaps let the vote be somewhat automated..if the clan leader logs in < x number of hours per month or something...

Offline Prometheus

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 02:47:47 am »
I like the idea of an timer on CL so if they go inactive they drop down to a level below CL. Or if we got off-line clan stuff implemented that might help the issues but I can see Molly's concern on if Immortals could clan demote / promote / expel off-line.

Prometheus.

Offline Virisin

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2008, 02:53:27 am »
I don't like a votes system. It's abuseable in so many ways. And.. I just don't think it's a good idea.

I do however like the retired clanleader idea.

Offline Estidn

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 01:25:46 pm »
What Virisin said.

Offline Mordecai

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Re: Concept for Enhancing Clans
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 05:47:46 pm »
I like the voting idea, based on a percentage of active clan members. With weighting based on clan rank.

I think clans could be allowed to set these fields up like:
clan set feesdue (monthly, weekly, 2_monthly)   /* Charge the clan fees automatically */
clan set inactiveafter <X number of months> /* define how long you consider someone can be away before they are inactive */
clan set expelcantpay <yes/no> /* kick people out who can't pay? */
clan set leadertime <X number of months>  /* how long can someone be an unchallenged leader for, before allowing an election */
clan vote <1st choice member name> <2nd choice member name> /* single transferable vote system (STV) that doesn't let your votes go to waste */
clan set resetranks <yes/no> /* reset all the members ranks when you have a leadership change? */

So really, instead of being expelled, they just stop showing up on lists and being counted in any stats, or charged any fees.
If you can't pay your clan fees, get out! Or not.