Skills/Spells Distribution

[Kvetch]

Sure... You and Molly makin' decisions without the rest of us now.  I see how you all are. 

[Mordecai]

I also agree that newbies should be able to get the basic (tier 1) skills/spells easily.

Anyway there's one question I haven't seen answered yet so maybe Mord can since he made it:

Does this new piece of code look at the classrestrictions?

By this I mean for example woodsing, is this still limited for only Gypsies to learn or will every class be able to learn woodsing once they find the correct Guildmaster who's teaching the skill?

In other words, do the current classes keep their skilllist and will players only be able to learn the skills/spells on that list or will classes become redundant after these changes?  Meaning anyone can learn anything as long as they find the right mob?

Just a question to clear up some confusing people might have.

No, the change only involves splitting where you get the skills for your class out.

[Molly]

Okey, I still have some small issues with this, the main one being what skills and spells the 'generic' Guildmasters get. (I've discussed this with Viri a bit, and he's already moved the mount and riding skills in the main list of post1 to the Stable Masters and Racecourse trainer, and given the Spellcaster GMs some actual spells to teach). I still think that it would be nice if each of the spellcaster GMs had at least one class-specific spell to teach, however - (as it is they are all similar).

Generally I think the IC element of who teaches what should be given just as much weight as the tier/level of the skill/spell, not just for the 'Specialist' Trainers, but for the 'Generalists' as well.

The 2 most powerful skills/spells for each class should also need a quest to get.
Suggestions of which spells that are considered best by the players would be helpful here.

I also want the system to be presented already in Mud School. The Governess in Mediaval could explain the system (which would give her a purpose) and then Gondolf could teach manifest and the Newbie School Stable Master the riding skills, to give an early introduction to how the Specialist Trainers look.

I added some suggestions to the list, but several skills/spells are yetnot filled, so please those of you that know the realms well, get a bit creative here!
Time's running out fast, we want to toe this feature to a global RP event that we are planning for mid April, and there is a lot of work to be done.

One thing that might be really helpful, when we make the final decisions, would be a list that showed all the skills/spells/class info on the same sheet. As it is you have to clip back and forth between the Class skilllists to compare them.

I know this means a bit of work to set up, but it would be very useful for other things too, and a nice ting to have on the webpage.
So if anyone would like to contribute to the mud, please volunteer in this thread.

The heading would look like:
Skill name :   Warrior    Hunter    Thief    Ranger    Gypsy    Mage    Priest    Esper 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
And  then each line  in the list would look something like this :
chill touch         -          -           -           -          -          T1/L2     T1/L5    T2/L14
(or whatever tier/level each class gets the skill/spell at).

[erwin]

How about something like this?

Tier 1 Skills/Spells

Skill/Spell name     Level   Warrior   Hunter   Thief   Ranger   Gypsy   Mage   Priest   Esper
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'drunk'                0        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y      Y       Y        Y
'firearm'              0        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'backstab'             1                          Y       Y        Y
'life transfer'        1                                                                   Y
'manifest'             1                                                  Y       Y        Y
'melee'                1        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'chill touch'          2                                                  Y       Y        Y
'kick'                 2        Y        Y                Y
'mount'                2        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y      Y       Y        Y
'protection from evil' 2                                                          Y
'detect poison'        3                                                  Y       Y        Y
'forsee'               3                                           Y                       Y
'infravision'          3                 Y                                Y       Y        Y
'mirror shield'        3                                                  Y       Y
'riding'               3        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y      Y       Y        Y
'word of recall'       3                                                  Y       Y        Y
'minor identify'       4                                           Y              Y        Y
'protection from fire' 4                                           Y      Y       Y
'steal'                4                          Y       Y        Y
'cure blind'           5                 Y                                        Y
'cure light'           5                                                          Y
'hand-to-hand'         5        Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'blackjack'            7                          Y                Y
'shield'               7                                                          Y        Y
'bow'                  8                 Y                Y
'hide'                 8                 Y        Y       Y
'confuse'              10                                                 Y                Y
'corrupt armor'        12                                                 Y
'fortify body'         12                                          Y              Y        Y
'push'                 12       Y        Y                                                 
'sleep'                12                                          Y                       Y
'sling'                12       Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'holy word'            13                                                         Y
'filet'                14                Y        Y       Y        Y
'brace'                15       Y        Y
'detect invisibility'  15                                 Y               Y                Y   
'mana shield'          15                                                 Y
'colour spray'         20                                                 Y
'crossbow'             20       Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'magic missile'        20                                                 Y       Y        Y
'static shield'        20                                          Y                       Y
'create food'          21                                                         Y        Y
'throw'                22       Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'sweet dreams'         23                                                                  Y
'tame'                 24       Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'air elemental'        25                                                 Y
'armor'                25                                                         Y        Y
'detect alignment'     25                                                         Y        Y
'strength'             25                                                         Y        Y
'dual'                 27       Y        Y        Y       Y        Y
'rescue'               27       Y
'track'                27                Y        Y       Y        Y
'create water'         28                                                 Y       Y
'forage'               28                Y        Y       Y        Y
'absolve'              30                                                         Y
'burning hands'        30                                                 Y       Y
'harm'                 30                                                         Y
'mana transfer'        30                                                 Y       Y        Y
'scan'                 31                Y        Y       Y
'shocking grasp'       31                                                         Y        Y
'sneak'                31                         Y       Y        Y
'antidote 1'           34                Y                                        Y
'cone of cold'         35                                                         Y        Y
'detect magic'         35                                                 Y       Y        Y
'scribe'               39                                                 Y       Y        Y
'battle rage'          40                                                 Y
'fireball'             40                                                 Y
'poison'               40                Y                Y        Y                       Y
'sense life'           41                Y        Y                Y
'recharge'             43                                                 Y       Y        Y
'bash'                 45       Y        Y
'snare'                47                Y        Y                Y
'grip'                 49       Y
'pick lock'            49                         Y       Y        Y

[erwin]

Here are some more spell locations

lightning bolt - High Priest of Zeus
locate object - archaelogists in old carthage (Could do any of the Old Carthage quests to get the spell..)
sense life - hunters in the stone age

The skills which I find extremely useful (as a GM), are locate object, encircle, scan, track, cure critic, and knock.

[Molly]

How about something like this?

Thanks Erwin, thats definitely a good start.
Good trainer suggestions for the main list too.

Couple of questions: (I know, I should know this, but concentrating on building has made me lose track of the active game)

- Do all the Classes get the Tier 1 skills/spells at the same level?
- And what about the Tier 2, 3 and 4 skills/spells for each Class?
- Which of the skills/spells from other Classes do you keep as GM? (apart from the ones you keep from previous Class)

Heh, I'd probably want them rearranged in alphabetical order too, to facilitate search for a spefific skill/spell, but that's something for later.
I guess next step would be to replace the Y with T#/L# .

[erwin]

Thanks Erwin, thats definitely a good start.
Good trainer suggestions for the main list too.

Couple of questions: (I know, I should know this, but concentrating on building has made me lose track of the active game)

- Do all the Classes get the Tier 1 skills/spells at the same level?
- And what about the Tier 2, 3 and 4 skills/spells for each Class?
- Which of the skills/spells from other Classes do you keep as GM? (apart from the ones you keep from previous Class)

Heh, I'd probably want them rearranged in alphabetical order too, to facilitate search for a spefific skill/spell, but that's something for later.
I guess next step would be to replace the Y with T#/L# .

Well, all classes get all the skills/spells at the same level and same tier. Eg, you learn sense life at T1L41, whether you are Priest, Hunter, or Gypsy.

I decided to do a sample of T1 spells/skills first, to check if that layout was okay, guess I modified it a bit since all the classes get the skills/spells at the same level, so just a Y if they do learn it.

All skills/spells up to T2L50 are kept as GM.

The skills/spells for T1 are sorted by level, then by alphabetical order.

I somehow feel that it would be better if there are 4 tables for each of the four tiers, preferably right after each other, so it would look like it's sorted from T1L1-T1L50-T2L1...-T4L50, instead of them being lumped together, as I think it's easier to see and compare.

[Mordecai]

Has anyone ever used detect magic or detect poison? :-P

[Virisin]

They're spammy.   

[erwin]

umm....not really.

I guess maybe that's because I have antidote spells, and the poisoned food so far can be cured using them, so I don't really use 'detect poison'.

As for detect magic, I don't use it because I have no clue what seperates a magical item from a non magical one, as far as I can tell, they're basically the same, except one is magical and the other is not.

[erwin]

How about something like this? Can be sorted too..though I think it looks better without the colour.

[Prometheus]

Has anyone ever used detect magic or detect poison? :-P

Then why don't we pull them out and maybe put in two new spells?

*gets a headache reading all of this*

Prometheus.

[Molly]

As far as I know magic items cannot be tinkered, which would mean a valid reason to use detect_magic, before you destroy a perfectly good weapon.
(I'm not sure if this is still the case, of course, things tend to get changed without notice, and it's been long since I actively played. Perhaps some of you could check?)

Otherwise I agree with Prom; if a skill/spell is useless, it should be pulled out and replaced with something better, especially since we reached a cap with skills/spells.

[Virisin]

They are useful, don't remove them.

[erwin]

Hmm..in terms of usefulness, I would think 'detect poison' is more useful than 'detect magic'. Simply put, an ID scroll can show whether an item is magic or not, which is most probably what you'll use on a new weapon/armour/misc object (rendering detect magic a bit useless), but it doesn't detect poisoned foods at all.