Grouping

[Virisin]

Normal grouping: the grouping style of the old code. Experience is split evenly, there is a 'tank' that takes all the damage. Tank = most recent group member.

Pros: cool
Cons: encourages powerlevelling (this is kinda small though, as the playerbase is so small that powerlevelling isn't really such a big issue..)

Complex grouping: two people are leveling, the highest total tnl group member gets half of the total exp he would get if leveling by himself. Whatever percentage of his total experience to next level this is, is knocked off other group members total experience to next level.

Example: group member with the highest tnl gets half the exp he'd usually get solo. If this is 2% of his tnl, then all his group members get 2% off their tnl.

Pros: kinda cool
Cons: Erwin might reply with some cons...

[erwin]

Complex grouping is basically Estidn's idea, and that prevents powerlevelling, but here are the cons.

-Groups have to go level from mobs around the highest player's level, that means there is an increased chance in getting hit and dying if there is a wide level difference, which leads to
-Players grouping around the same level.
-Boss mobs like Voltron won't be worth killing, if say, 75M xp gives only 12.5% of the highest player's TNL, and a lowbie priest gets only 25% of his TNL, which could be a mere 10-20M.

But..instead of the highest level player getting half of the total xp he would get if levelling himself, the formulae would be 0.50X + ( (number of PCs in a group -1) * 0.1)X, where X is the XP he would get if levelling by himself.
However, this formulae would only work if the mob's level <100. If the mob is > level 100, then the formulae for normal grouping applies.

*On second thought, I'd go for normal grouping...unless there is a formulae that accounts for experienced players showing newbies around zones with 'follow'. If you're passively in a group, and leading a newbie to kill low level mobs, and that newbie does all the damage, he should get all the XP.

[Kvetch]

Normal grouping: the grouping style of the old code. Experience is split evenly, there is a 'tank' that takes all the damage. Tank = most recent group member.

Pros: cool
Cons: encourages powerlevelling (this is kinda small though, as the playerbase is so small that powerlevelling isn't really such a big issue..)

Yes, it does encourage powerleveling and evne though the playerbase is small, do we want something that, as the player base gets larger we have to go "Oh... now we can put in the REAL grouping system". 

This also has the con that it encourages some players to be "lazy" and not learn the mud - choosing only to group with people that know their way around the mud.  I'll admit to being "lazy" on another mud.  I got to top level there (150 with weird remort system) with all the best eq (even stuff you had to put together - never got anything myself) and seriously only knew aboug 6 zones I could get to myself - and they weren't high level zones.

While in one way I love this system - with the tank and all - in another I dislike it.  Reasons I love it is you can help newbies get a few "easy level" so the feel confident walking around the mud checking things out instead of being dumped out of mudschool and going "now where?"  "What zones are 'my level'?"

I hate it because it leaves no chance of anyone getting hurt other than the tank.  We talk about giving suggestions to make the mud more realistic and you can't tell me that with 4 people hitting a mob with melee weapons, only ONE of them can get hit?  Please...  Now having said that, I do think spellcasters - as long as they are casting spells - should be able to stand back and cast their attack spells without getting hit while someone else is the tank.  I also think there should be flanking bonuses for more than one melee person attacking a mob, but that's probably another point if Mord doesn't already have something like that.

Kvetchy

[Virisin]

I see where you're coming from Kvetch, the idea of powerlevelling newbies up into twinks has never been an idea I like myself.. But I think powerlevelling is a sacrifice I'm willing to make to allow fun grouping again.

As for some of the other points you bring up, they come under combat on my to-do list. I'll get to combat eventually.

[Fizban]

do we want something that, as the player base gets larger we have to go "Oh... now we can put in the REAL grouping system".

I smell an optimist. Muds with incresing playerbase size? Those only exist if we call WoW a MUD...

[Estidn]

Now that I think about it my suggestion for grouping would be horribly abusable. So we should just go back to old grouping.

Example

A tier 4 level 49 warrior with 324590358 remorts go leveling with a tier 4 level 50 priest with 3 remorts. Need I continue?

Take 1mil for the priest to get 50%exptnl knocked off but the warrior ends up needing 3492180423exptnl to level gets knocked down by 50% which ends up being a shitload more exptnl knocked off.

Of course our coders can think of a way around this.

Example

The warrior can't gain more than the priest in exptnl

Example 2

Get rid of the sick exptnl that builds up from remorts

Honestly though I don't care which system gets implemented, I just want grouping back. Might get off my lazy butt and level then.

[erwin]

Actually, it's the other way round..the warrior will get a tiny tiny fraction which is probably 0.005 percent of his XP, and the priest will get 0.005 percent of 1M knocked off. Not good.

[Natalya B.]

To attempt to help stop powerlevelling..

How about a level-range system for groups.

Say if the people in the group are outside a 5 or 10 level range of eachother, there will be an exp penalty. IE, no one gets experience points.

... Run with that idea perhaps? I have to head off else I'd try explain further.

*shrug* Not the greatest idea in the world anyway.

[Virisin]

I don't think that'd work. Might be worth a try but I think I'd rather just go with the old system for a while.

[Natalya B.]

I miss the old system too. It's part the reason I don't group.

That, and i never group with nat anyway due to rp.. but i do kinda miss hunting in groups.

maybe with a 10 level range exp penalty.. might be a compromise... the ability to hunt together and level up, without the major risk of powerlevelling - ie lvl 50 powerlevelling a lvl 1 noob.

grouping kinda adds some atmosphere too. Might sound silly, but i think it does anyway...

Ah I miss the old days

Yeah. Can we go back to the old group system?

[Natalya B.]

BTW, the level penalty system could be varied. Outside of 10 level range diff = a certain percentage of experience gets dropped.

Outside of 15 levels, a larger percentage of exp drop.

Outside of 20 level range, larger percentage drop.

so on and so forth. Perhaps outside of 40 level range diff means like 1exp point, if any at all.

But as long as you're inside of 10 levels of eachother, you can group and still get normal exp as you would alone, you just kill faster.

15 levels is still doable, just a tiny bit less exp per person.

.. get the idea?

[Kvetch]

I miss the old system too. It's part the reason I don't group.

That, and i never group with nat anyway due to rp.. but i do kinda miss hunting in groups.

Awww.. comon, Nat.  You could get a group of Vampires together to try and kill off some goody two shoes.  That'd be some rp.  Kinda like Underworld.. get some Vamps together and hunt down them Werewolves - or whoever the Vampire mortal enemy is that you decide. 

[Natalya B.]

Merr. With Natalya, Im all about doing things independantly. If you can't do something yourself, it's not worth doing, type deal.

Doesn't always work that well :p

[Natalya B.]

*nudge*

Whats happening with this. I just got told to bug the coders about grouping.

[Molly]

*triple nudge*

Yeah, could something please be done about grouping soon?

I can understand some players wanting to go solo, but in general grouping is supposed to be fun and promote social interaction. And if the code puts too many penalties and restrictions on it, people just won't group any more, and that seems to be what's been happening in 4D.

I want grouping back to what it used to be, and I can even live with a bit of powerlevelling, if the alternative is that nobody groups. Especially now, when we seem to have picked up an unusual amount of new players, it would be nice if fixing grouping could be made a priority so that it encourages them to stay on and helps them being assimilated faster in the playerbase.

*pokes the coders*