Author Topic: The mighty Golems and their future...  (Read 14359 times)

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Leonardo

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The mighty Golems and their future...
« on: August 16, 2009, 07:21:16 am »
Hello lads,

Glad to see some of you are still around, and for you who are not here anymore God bless or curse you; depending on what reason you had to leave.

As my first step online, Molly caught the occasion to remind me that I didn't finish a certain feature she calls 'Golems' :-)
Feeling deeply wounded by her words, I've decided to start messing around with scripts again. (Wish I could code the whole feature in the mud core)

So, as most of you know, if I have to work on a feature for YOU to have fun with it, mandatory speaking I need your help and suggestions as what do you like the feature to do, have, and give. We'll start this discussion with some simple and easy questions, so we all get on the thread together and start working on a serious business plan.
I'm sure most of you already fiddled their fingers with the Golems, for the ones who didn't yet I really advice you to have some fun and DO IT!
You can find the Golem's shop in Fenizia, an old and VERY tall artisan can craft you one in minutes.

Questions time, you don't have to answer them all if you don't want to:

What do you like about Golems?

What you dislike about Golems?

What is the reason that have made you interested about the Golems in the first place?

What is the reason why you don't have one right now in your inventory?

How would you improve the Golems (adding new features, removing other ones) ?

Did you find any bug? If yes, describe it.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 07:25:01 am by Leonardo »

Offline Ruby

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 04:06:14 am »
I never tried golems, so I decide to give them a go today.  I'm still playing with them now while I'm typing this post.


Some things I liked:
I liked the extra things each golem are supposed to do.  I haven't unlocked anything interesting on mine yet, but reading about their abilities was interesting.

Some things I didn't like:
I didn't like that they don't autoassist.  I suppose that's because they're not a charmed mob like regular pets are but a lot of times, I'm halfway through a fight before I realize my golem is not gaining any exp.
I didn't like that the gstat command took a long time to display the information.  I'm not sure the reasoning behind making us wait for the information.

The reason I tried golems now, and never before was because there wasn't a lot of information available for it.  There is no golem helpfile, which would be the first place I would look if I wanted information.  Plus it's not a very well advertised feature.

I'm not sure about what improvements I could suggest, other than fixing the two things I didn't like, but I'm really looking forward to the spy and healer golem types.

Finally, there was one bug, but I think it's just a display bug.  When I summoned my tier 2 golem, I typed gstat, but before the golem transformed, it displayed an amount of G-Exp double what it really had (184% as opposed to 92%)

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 05:17:58 am »
Hi Ruby,

I'm very glad that you discovered the Golems and wrote this nice feedback.

The Golems idea is a joint-venture between molly and me that started more than a year ago. It's a complex scripting feature, probably the most complex one in the game. Unfortunately I've had some RL issues and had to move from Italy to Romania, getting very busy and I never had the chance to finish them.

The Golems were made when the FIGHT system was different, where every player in the group Involved was going to fight and get damaged according to their involvement. Since the FIGHT system was changed I have to modify the Golems code accordingly. You can also use 'gorder assist' to force the Golem to engage the fight, hope it still works.
The Gstat command has a 5s delay, to avoid somebody crashing the mud. The Gstat command is a series of mathematical calculations between variables that stress the CPU of the server hosting the mud. If it has no delay someone could spam it repeatedly and crash the mud at his will.

You are right, it's a big and innovative feature and we got no advertisement for it. I'll be posting a post on the recall board and I'll ask Molly to add a News sign in Recall about the feature. Also would be nice if someone could transform the Users manual sold by Ferdinand into a Help file accessible by everybody, anywhere.

The only Golem that made it out of the Beta version and hit Release 1.0 is the Bodyguard type, you can also test the Thief type for as cheap as 1TP. If you're interested you can be added to the Official Beta testers list and receive 20 free TPs to help you test the feature without costs in exchange of weekly detailed Feedback and promise to test accurately every new feature I release.

The bug you've reported isn't really a bug, when you drop your Golem it loads on normal form (not tiered) then a random check verifies your Gexp and transforms your Golem to the appropriate tier level. So if you just drop your Golem your Gexp% value is higher than 100% until the check kicks in an transforms your Golem to the appropriate level.

Thank you very much for your feedback, and I look forward on receiving more.

Offline Ruby

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 06:35:36 am »
For the problem with the 5 second lag, can it be put after the information is displayed?



Edit (added on later):
One more thing.. it's not really a bug, but there is a line on the gstat that says:
"| | 5) Tier: - None "
The golem can also continue to earn exp at tier 4, but when it reaches 100% exp, it just continues to build up to 101% etc.  Maybe instead of removing either, you can think about a "special" mastery bonus for reaching the end of tier 4.  For example, for thief, maybe it can begin to steal things by entering the room with you, instead of depending on the mob to enter the room first, or a general stats buff for the bodyguard.


Atm, I think it might be too easy to level the golems.  I don't really notice a big difference in the G-exp requirement at tier 3 and tier 4, but it should be more difficult to level the last tiers.  But maybe it's because I have the play-testing thief golem.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 07:42:43 am by Ruby »

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 12:14:59 pm »
You're right, simple and clever intuition, there's no need to delay the information, I can delay the time after the information has been displayed. Will make the change asap.

Take a screenshot of that buggy line and post it here, I'll look into it.

It's supposed to get till 101% and stop there. Means you reached the maximum level possible of Gexp.
Back in the past we thought about having the Golem reach full tier4 strength by adding a powerful feature at the mastery.
I also thought of changing the Golem name once you reach max Gexp at tier4 i.e.:
instead of having the classic: a shifty looking Golem which is Tier4 indicated by the red line before it's name, you'll get at tier4 Mastery:
a shifty looking Thieves Master Golem (Thief type, still tier4 but slightly more powerful)
a grotesque looking Secrecy Master Golem (Spy type)
a nasty looking Protection Master Golem (Bodyguard type)
a cute Wizardry Master Golem (Healer type)
Without any added ability, just a bit more powerful in stats.

The Thief Golem is in Beta test, it's G-exp value has been increased by 1000% - you should try and test out the Bodyguard version. That should be harder.
Anyhow if you apply the Ointment item which is a quest item in Fenizia you get +20% G-exp, and if ur smart and read the book, you'll see there are some places and mobs which give way more G-exp to the Golems fighting that particular type of mobs in particular types of terrains.


Offline mireille

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 02:15:48 pm »
one thing I noticed is that when a golem transforms from one tier to another in battle, it stops fighting so you have to order it to assist again, and it's not obvious. I only noticed because it stopped showing that the golem was gaining exp, and I had to order it to assist me again. I don't know if that can be helped, but anyway.

I'm not sure why as well, but they also seem to stop gaining exp after a certain amount of time in battle?

it would also be nice if you could order the golems to flee or something. if you need to flee from combat I can't see any way of getting your golem to as well, so the only option is for it to die? it's very frustrating, this happened to me like three times today after all the bloody effort of levelling it up!

anyway I like the golems, and look forward to when the other ones become available, especially the spy :)

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 03:09:04 pm »
Gorder commands, copied from portions of the original script:
*You will notice some differences in the commands between the two types of Golems.

Bodyguard Gorder:
  case SIT
    sit
  break
  case STAND
    stand
  break
  case WEAR
    wear %arg.cdr%
  break
  case HOLD
    hold %arg.cdr%
  break
  case USE
    use %arg.cdr% self
  break
  case DROP
    drop %arg.cdr%
  break
  case KILL
  case REMOVE
    remove %arg.cdr%
  break
  case GIVE
    give all %mymas.name%
  break
  case QUAFF
    quaff %arg.cdr%
  break
  case ASSIST
    assist %mymas.name%
  break
  default

Thief Gorder:
  case SIT
    sit
  break
  case STAND
    stand
  break
  case WEAR
    wear %arg.cdr%
  break
  case HOLD
    hold %arg.cdr%
  break
  case DROP
    drop %arg.cdr%
  break
  case KILL
  case REMOVE
    remove %arg.cdr%
  break
  case GIVE
    give all %mymas.name%
  break
  case QUAFF
    quaff %arg.cdr%
  break
  case ASSIST
    assist %mymas.name%
  break
  case GOLD

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 03:26:21 pm »
Again the Golem feature was developed when the FIGHTING code in 4D was different, one year ago when you fought in a GROUP, every member was forced to fight based on its involvement and every member was taking damage too. Now, only the group leader fights and takes damage. Players have a toggle called Auto-Assist, mobs don't.
Nothing more obvious to say that I have to re-write the whole fighting system of the Golems and adapt it to the new 4D code Fighting System.
Sorry for the inconvenience but I just came back from a long retirement and found these code changes I didn't expect at the time I've scripted the golems.

There is a temporary solution though, you can use: 'gorder assist' to force the Golem assist you in battle. Remember if he's not fighting, he's not gaining G-exp.
You can even make an alias to speed up the process: 'ali k kill $1;gorder assist' - every time you attack a mob just type: k mobname - and your golem will always force-assist.

Of course they stop gaining G-exp after some time, else cheaters like me could level a Golem using a couple of Cmud scripts without doing nothing. And since I'm the kind of guy who could make his mud client do anything automatically *don't tell anyone but I even had a script that leveled my char while I was at work*. So, I basically thought of a way to stop skilled people from cheating while leveling their Golem.
Basically you could just find the best G-exp giving mob, make him follow you in the best G-exp giving terrain, remove all your gear and weapons, bring 10000 potions to the room, stay there and fight that mob forever till your Golem is tier4.
To avoid ingenious minds from doing so, I've set a limit of 10 (less or more, don't remember) G-exp gains from the same mob.
Even if you manage to stop the fight on the mob and then restart, you won't gain any G-exp. Since the mob you've fighted got flagged with your player-id.
One thing you can do to improve leveling, is count the G-exp gains you get, once you're at 10 from the same mob, just leave the fight and go to another mob, no need to waste time killing it.

About the FLEE command, there's no need for it. Since if you flee yourself from battle, after 13seconds MAXIMUM the Golem teleports to you. So if you want to have your Golem avoid death, just flee sooner enough so he can teleport to you and exit the fight. The time he needs to teleport to you can vary from 1second to 13seconds maximum. Having that in mind, calculate accordingly the right time to flee.

Thanks for your feedback, I greatly appreciated it.

The Golems development order is:
A-Bodyguard (Release 1.0)
B-Thief (Beta)
C-Spy (Alpha)
C-Healer (Alpha).

Once the Thief golem exits Beta and becomes a Release, I'll start working on the Spy. Your feedback and suggestions can speed up the process drastically. So keep the good work going.
one thing I noticed is that when a golem transforms from one tier to another in battle, it stops fighting so you have to order it to assist again, and it's not obvious. I only noticed because it stopped showing that the golem was gaining exp, and I had to order it to assist me again. I don't know if that can be helped, but anyway.

I'm not sure why as well, but they also seem to stop gaining exp after a certain amount of time in battle?

it would also be nice if you could order the golems to flee or something. if you need to flee from combat I can't see any way of getting your golem to as well, so the only option is for it to die? it's very frustrating, this happened to me like three times today after all the bloody effort of levelling it up!

anyway I like the golems, and look forward to when the other ones become available, especially the spy :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 03:32:50 pm by Leonardo »

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 04:14:37 pm »
one thing I noticed is that when a golem transforms from one tier to another in battle, it stops fighting so you have to order it to assist again, and it's not obvious. I only noticed because it stopped showing that the golem was gaining exp, and I had to order it to assist me again. I don't know if that can be helped, but anyway.

I'm not sure why as well, but they also seem to stop gaining exp after a certain amount of time in battle?

it would also be nice if you could order the golems to flee or something. if you need to flee from combat I can't see any way of getting your golem to as well, so the only option is for it to die? it's very frustrating, this happened to me like three times today after all the bloody effort of levelling it up!

anyway I like the golems, and look forward to when the other ones become available, especially the spy :)

I've run a quick-check on the fighting script, took half an hour, that script is so long and so complex I had problems understanding it, it's been so long since I created it, luckily enough at the time I've dropped lines of comments here and there explaining what it does else I would still be there trying to figure out.

There is a line:
elseif %mymas.fighting% && !%self.fighting%
  growl
  assist %mymas.name%

Basically the lines says: Check if MY MASTER (YOU) is fighting and if I AM (Golem) not fighting then Growl and Assist MY MASTER (YOU)
Problem is scripts can't do a CONSTANT check, they can only perform checks randomly. The smallest number of time a random check can process is 13seconds.
In mere words; every 13seconds the Golem checks if you are fighting or not, if you are fighting he assists automatically.

To improve your leveling find mobs with HIGH hp that don't die fast so the 13seconds check won't be a problem. The golem also gains G-exp once every 13seconds of fighting.

I've done another scripts check and found that you can gain G-exp from the same mob only 5 times. After that the mob doesn't give any more G-exp to the Golem.

Hope this helps understanding better how Golems work, so you can experiment different and more efficient leveling strategies.

Check out the Golem Updates post for new Fixes and features,

Again a ton of thanks for your feedback and support.

Offline Molly

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 04:47:52 am »
Actually, when it comes to autoassisting, I think only the Fighter type Golem should do that.
The other three types can assist when gordered, but basically they've got other main purposes.

I am glad that LH has resumed the work on the Golems, it's a nice feature and I'd like to see it finished. Trainable pets is something that I've always wanted in 4D.

The reson why there aren't any helpfiles, is of course that the feature isn't complete, it's still partly in testing, so we don't want to announce it to new players before all bugs have been ironed out and the golems are fully balanced.
I am going to put in a preliminary helpfile now, however.
And there should be full info in the Book of Golem and the Golem Owner's Manual, both of which can be acquired in Fenizia.
With the obvious restriction of course, thart only the Fighter type is fully functional, and the Thief is in beta testing. When thieves are finished, Spy will be worked on, and last Healer.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 05:19:57 am by Molly »

Leonardo

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Re: The mighty Golems and their future...
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 09:34:07 am »
An important update has been done to the feature: http://4dimensions.org/forum/index/topic,205.0.html
Make sure to read the Update log, test the feature and leave your feedback.

Thanks