Unperzable Items

[Bane]

Why do we have unperzable quest Items? I can understand some of list, and its pretty obvious as to why. But why cant we perz some of the quest items? Is it it because of the builders request of not wanting it to be a Perz?

Is it possible to discuss about removing the items? From a point of view its silly to see everyone wearing some of the same quest equipment. Its just something that was always a little annoying and I never knew the reasoning behind it.

Heres a list of unperzables.
The following items can not be personalized and more may be added in the future:
- ALL Mine equipment
- Anything that is poison 3 or 4
- Heavy stone shackles
- The sword Orcrist
- The sword Memory
- The dark sword Sorrow
- Martin's Holy Armour
- The bloody horntips of the Minotaur
- The scaled legs of the green dragon
- Achilles' heel
- The *shining* armor of Achilles
- The scourge of Tisiphone
- A crinkled leaf
- Robin Hood's Official Greencoat Dagger
- The cool dagger
- The Rainbow Serpent's skin (May be perzed only once)
- A cosmic string (May be perzed only once)
- A -mythril- bracelet set with the Gravity Materia
- Grizzled fur
- Ghostly Shimmer
- Henna hand tattoo
- ALL artifacts

[Once]

I'd like to hear the rationale as well.

[Molly]

I'm not even sure if there is a rational, except with a developing object like Orcrist.
Many of the objects on the list have some funky script. With some others, that are on wear_locs that can be worn twice, it's more of a practical restriction. Those must have a separate check added to the original script, preventing them from being worn together with either the original or with other perzes of the same object.

So the main reason is to prevent extra work and possible scripting mistakes for whoever does the perzes. The more scripts, and the more complicated they become, the greater the risk for bugs.

With the new perzing rules, where the object has to be identificable with the vmum of the original object, I guess the restrictions are less necessary, and could be removed on all the items except Orcrist. I just never saw the reason to do it, probably because I never liked perzes. To me they are mostly a P*I*T*A, meaning more work for builders, more potential cheats to check for the admin and less bragging value for the original items. But then again that's just my opinion, and as long as the players like them and someone else than me is willing to make them, I guess I could live with the restrictions being taken away.

I'd like some input on Diandra on this, since she is traditionally the one that ended up with the shit work, whenever the stats of some frequently perzed object got changed for some reason.

[Diandra]

Never knew the reason myself for that list.

One of the reason is probably to avoid being able to wear/wield two of the same items at the same time. Some time ago, a script was added to such items to prevent them being worn twice. Not sure though if the arti's have a similar check nowadays or need a similar check.

So if the builder making the perzes adds all scripts or adds the existing script from the original item to the script the player wants I don't see a problem with those objects being perzed.

Just remember every stat/script from the original item gets transfered to the perz so if it's a timered item the perz will have the timer too.


There's still one downside, this was on my list to fix but I never got around to it: some of those items are rewards for one-time-only quest. So in essence, those might have been by request of the original builder of the zone. Anyway if you encounter items that seem to belong to a one-time only quest meaning you don't receive the item if you repeat the quest, let me know and I'll get around trying to fix those ...eventually... 

[Bane]

I know of at least one, maybe two one time quests. Its been years since Ive done the other one, So im not sure if its still a one time quest. Ill shoot you a note in game. as long as posting here.


Martin's Holy Armor -- Know for a fact

And

Platinum Pinky Ring -- was a one time quest a few years ago, no idea if its still is.


And on a side note Im happy to see this, I would say leave it so mine equipment and arti's cant be perzed. That would be wasting an Imms time. Also Maybe Orcsist? But can we get an updated post on the staff board in the mail room then with this info when you get time.

[Jaros]

Just to clarify, can we get an updated list of what cannot be perzed?

[Natalya B.]

Sonya - I think - was the one that brought in this change?
To my memory, she tried to assist and take the role of RP gear and perzs and that sort of stuff, along with raising the prices of perzes and we suddenly had a limit on perzs too.
The limit I don't disagree with too much, it does make you pick and choose what's important to you.

Perhaps perz's and one-time only items could be re-evaluted. At the end of the day, some quest items aren't too difficult to re-get, but by the same token, some are, and when someone has done the quest heaps of times before, and they lose the item due to a DT, or worse - pwipes and or flag losses for [insert reasons here], it starts getting a bit rediculous - in the sense that we then have to make an alt, lvl up an alt, just to re-get a piece of eq.

One of the things that holds people back from continuing playing is the loss of gear, and the utter pain in the ass effort it takes to get some things back.

A recent example is Loran, who dt'd. Without proper gear, it's extremely hard to get back even basic "good" eq to even get enough damage to TRY to get the better eq back again. It's a tough climb to the top, when you have nothing. It does add to people not continuing to play.

But, that's just my personal stance, and I know I'm not alone in thinking that either...

Perhaps molly, Kvetch or Diandra could re-visit the changes that were made to these issues, since most of us are saying "Where's the rationale for it?" anyway...
There's a difference between keeping things interesting and having a bit of a challenge, and making life harder than it should be in 4d.

[Jaros]

Well said Nat.  The list has always seemed very arbitrary to me.

[Pix]

Could a re-evaluation of how DTs work (see other post) be of any use to this?

[Tocharaeh]

I think I like the DTs, but the one problem I've always had with the running the risk of DTs is the whole "one time quest item" concept. Eventually, if a good portion of your gear is a O.T.Q.I., then a simple DT really upsets the balance of it all, especially since some of these items are literally the best in the game.

As for limiting the amount of gear than can be perzed, and what gear is on the off-limits list, I've always hated that. Uniqueness is the big thing I have always enjoyed, and I really think we should get rid of the silly limit, especially with the one timers, and dts around. Aside from the orcrist, the list should be abolished too. I'm tired of seeing everyone with the same acheles armor, and what not. Hehehehe

[Once]

Do NOT expect this regularly but I agree with Toch.

[Kvetch]

It wasn't until recently (oh, see Nat's post) that I even knew there was limit on the number of perzs.  And I've been the one doing them.  so, I must ask (and yes this is coming up now with someone that wants 4 more perzs and they're already sitting at 13), is there a real reason to the limit of perzs?  I mean other than the fact they all take up a new vnum which leaves us less vnums for new and exciting items.

Kvetch

[Virisin]

I've already got more than 15 perzes cause you're not the first imm that had no idea there was a limit Kvetch.

So there

[Molly]

The general rule is that if anyone asks for a 16th perze, they need to first decide on scrapping one of the existing, (which is usually no big deal, since many perzes aren't used after new and better items were available).

The best way to handle it is to just re-use the vnum of the scrapped perze to make the new one. That way we won't have any problem with non-existing objects that upset the code and stop the port from rebooting.

[horus]

I believe I posted somewhere to the builders a way to make new perzes by using the same vnum so it wouldnt be a PITA to allow unrestricted perzes. I also believe there is no code that double checks unique perz vnums to stop double wears - the scripts have to manually be adjusted, so its simpler to just use the same vnums.

I havent looked at the code in a while, but I think the process is to simply restring the item, then add a UNIQUE flag to it.