Blue Band of Victory (BBV)

[Xeriuth]

I would like to propose some changes to the BBV:
1. New stats for both casters and melee.
a. There could be two items created and the item transforms, much like the Grizzled fur.
b. It has been suggested that casters receive a focus instead of an arm item, since there isn't anything other than a focus that is truly beneficial to casters in terms of gear.
c. Otherwise stats and an innate could be applied. (Which stats can be discussed)

2. BBV transfers ownership upon death.
a. Both parties must be PK and the kill can not be made in the typical arena rooms... battlefield arena/tournament yard... so kills must be done in auto-challenge arena or open world.
b. When the BBV is transferred it will auto-equip to the current owner. Since the BBV will have new stats, it should ideally be better than majority of items in the same wear location it has.
c. The BBV should always be worn by the owner to show that they have it and can appropriately be challenged through an auto-challenge system (to be mentioned)
d. Ideally the BBV will be non-removable.

3. Auto-Challenge system. You will be able to use the challenge social to challenge the BBV wearer for the BBV
a. A small arena built specifically for the BBV challenges.
b. We need to discuss the limitations of challenges:
How often? Location of challenger/challenged? Witnesses? etc.

4. The item(s) gain levels similar to the Orcrist, however it will be based on the number of PK kills (with limitations)
a. Limitations would be the level of the individual being killed, and unable to do repeat kills. Also arena kills will not count.
b. The item should gradually get more powerful but never extremely overpowering, making the current wearer a god so-to-speak.

5. To prevent inactivity and the BBV remaining out of circulation, a timer should be added.
a. This timer will reset to full upon any login though, the timer should last roughly 4 days real time.

This is not a complete list of all of the proposed changes, but just those I can remember at this time. If anyone thinks of anything they would like to see for this versatile hand changing item, please say so, and mention what you like and dislike of the proposed changes. Also please mention what you would feel is appropriate stats, milestones for the band being leveled and appropriate stat growth/innates etc. Feel free to comment as much as needed. And may we see a better BBV in the future!

[Xeriuth]

Lionheart and myself will be working on making all of the scripted changes that we are discussing. We would just like to inquire on as much input as possible to gauge what the most accepted changes will be. The ideas above are what we have brainstormed thus far, although I might have missed a few things.

[Calypso]

I would like to propose some changes to the BBV:
1. New stats for both casters and melee.
a. There could be two items created and the item transforms, much like the Grizzled fur.
b. It has been suggested that casters receive a focus instead of an arm item, since there isn't anything other than a focus that is truly beneficial to casters in terms of gear.
c. Otherwise stats and an innate could be applied. (Which stats can be discussed)

I love the idea that casters would get something useful to them. An untimered high powered focus would be something worth fighting for.  My only concern is that Priests are so overpowered. The two top PKillers in the game, currently, are both Priests with over 100 remorts.  Say what you want about having low HP. With a high wimpy and an unlimited ability to cast a full heal, they are hard to kill. And with 'lightning bolt' doing 2k+ damage each time, priests are nearly impossible to beat without the use of dirty tricks. Add a high stat'd, untimered focus to that, with all the perks that come with the BBV, it would be amazing if it changed hands very often at all.  But I digress; the OP-ness of Priests is for a different thread.

2. BBV transfers ownership upon death.
a. Both parties must be PK and the kill can not be made in the typical arena rooms... battlefield arena/tournament yard... so kills must be done in auto-challenge arena or open world.
b. When the BBV is transferred it will auto-equip to the current owner. Since the BBV will have new stats, it should ideally be better than majority of items in the same wear location it has.
c. The BBV should always be worn by the owner to show that they have it and can appropriately be challenged through an auto-challenge system (to be mentioned)
d. Ideally the BBV will be non-removable.

-Having both parties be PK is a must, obviously. I like the idea of keeping the tournament yard as a practice field only, with no risks involved.

-I like the idea of the BBV auto-transferring, almost like a deed after killing the right mob.  That way there is less arguing about who the rightful owner of it should be.

-I don't like the idea of it being non-removable. Even if the BBV had great stats for fighting, not everyone fights 100% of the time. Sometimes a player wants to level or tunnel, and would need different equipment with different kind of stats on it.

3. Auto-Challenge system. You will be able to use the challenge social to challenge the BBV wearer for the BBV
a. A small arena built specifically for the BBV challenges.
b. We need to discuss the limitations of challenges:
How often? Location of challenger/challenged? Witnesses? etc.

I love the idea that a challenge has to be responded to, with automated consequences. It is easy to hang on to the BBV currently and always have some reason why one can't accept a formal challenge, thus never having to give it up. There was some talk about the automated challenge social being able to be given even when the challenger is not in the same room as the one being challenged. That would by-pass the effort to hide out in clan hall to avoid being challenged. A challenge not accepted would be a forfeiture of the BBV to the challenger, or perhaps it would go back to the room in which it loads.

If the challenge social will be automated, I don't see a reason for witnesses.

4. The item(s) gain levels similar to the Orcrist, however it will be based on the number of PK kills (with limitations)
a. Limitations would be the level of the individual being killed, and unable to do repeat kills. Also arena kills will not count.
b. The item should gradually get more powerful but never extremely overpowering, making the current wearer a god so-to-speak.

I like the idea of it being able to level based on how many pkills the wearer gets. I don't understand what you mean by 'limitations would be the level of the individual being killed.' In what way would that limit the BBV?

Repeat kills should count. The current pkill score system takes into account the level of each pkiller. If a T4 L50 PKiller with 75 remorts kills a T2L50 PKiller with 20 remorts, the T4 player may win but he loses PK points. I think that idea should transfer over to the BBV leveling system. If a big player with the BBV wants to attack a smaller player over and over again, by all means do it!! But the BBV loses potency with each win. Likewise, if a small player with the BBV attacks and kills a bigger player, he should be able to do that as often as he sees fit and have it count towards his BBV leveling.  Otherwise, there are so few PKillers in game right now, that without repeat kills, there would be no way to level the BBV; there'd be no PKillers left to go for after a while.

5. To prevent inactivity and the BBV remaining out of circulation, a timer should be added.
a. This timer will reset to full upon any login though, the timer should last roughly 4 days real time.

This is not a complete list of all of the proposed changes, but just those I can remember at this time. If anyone thinks of anything they would like to see for this versatile hand changing item, please say so, and mention what you like and dislike of the proposed changes. Also please mention what you would feel is appropriate stats, milestones for the band being leveled and appropriate stat growth/innates etc. Feel free to comment as much as needed. And may we see a better BBV in the future!

I like the idea of having a somewhat short timer. I know there may be a lot of whining about that, but this gives everyone a chance to win it. Otherwise, a player could leave for a while, and take the BBV with him, never allowing others the chance. When I first considered this, I was against it, thinking 'What if someone goes on vacation or has some events in rl that makes them have to take a break for a while? How is it fair to have a short timer?' This would not be the only item in game with a short timer. If the BBV circulates often, it will be a better motivator to get more PKillers involved than if the BBV sits on an inactive player who never signs in. If that person wants the BBV back when he returns from vacation or whatever, he knows what he has to do.

Could we change the current PK Champ on the who board to read the name of the player who has the BBV? Keep the locator up there so all the other pkillers have a running start on hunting him down.

[Calypso]

An additional note to say that the BBV should not be lootable. If the BBV holder dies from a mob, the BBV should go back to its load spot or just stay on the corpse.

[Leonardo]

Here's the expanded idea, it has technical concepts in case any builder wants to help out.

1. New stats for both casters and melee.
   -Melee get a high DR item on the bodypart we'll see fit, atm: ARMS. The stats on the BBV will change according to the PKills you have (this will be a separate kills scoring system, remoted on playes as flags, nothing to do with the code PKills)
   -Melee item evolves on these conditions: 10-30-50-100 kills = 3-5-7-10 Damroll/Hitroll/other stats, suggestions appreciated, just keep the kill tiers in mind when proposing evolving stats.
   -Casters have no appealing stats, everybody has max stats and 100CHA applying so little effort, the proposed item is a Staff that will evolve starts at 3x multi and goes up as melee damroll: 10-30-50-100 kills = 3x - 4x - 5x - 5.5x - the best caster item atm is a very easy to get Pike with 4.3x multi. the BBV for casters will be: the Blue Staff of Victory - it autotransforms when you try to wear it.

2. Abuse protection, you can't fight the same player over and over for kills. We all have PK friends and nothing stops your friend from letting you kill him over and over to get kills and level your BBV. The item stats are awesome, you have to earn those stats. I thought about storing the ID of the player you fought and you have to fight 2 more different players before you can store kills from the first player again.

3. the BBV wearer can't be looted, nor can he loot the players he kills, a script will prevent that for both parties. The BBV wearer has a big advantage vs other players so we consider looting will not be fair also, he BBV wearer has a lot of interest in getting kills, and if players are afraid of him looting their gear, they'd be more reticent of fighting him and that causes frustration for both parties, the BBV champion has a hard time finding opponents and opponents are frustrated about take the chance of killing him. We think this no-loot feature will increase PK gameplay.

4. a script will check every 15s if you're wearing the BBV, and send you a warning, if by the 3rd warning you're still not wearing it, it will PUFF and another PK can pick it up from the Champions Altar

5. From the Champions Altar you can challenge the current BBV Champion, whatever he's doing he'll get a notification and in 1m both parties will be TPed to the BBV Arena.
   - If the champion loses the fight in this area, the BBV will auto-load in the winner inventory
   - If the champion wins will be rewarded with 3 kills
   - You can't challenge again the current Champion until someone else challenges him
   - We thought not to add any protection about this, whoever has the BBV must live with the hassle of being challenged 2, 5 or even 10 times a day for the right of keeping it. Again the stats are impressive, you want it, fight for it.

6. Every time you logout or idle out, the BBV will puff, when you come back you can go get it from the Champion Altar, it will remember that you're the current owner BUT if you don't go pick it for more than 48hours, 2 days, the magic will dissipate and forget who owns it. Any PK at that point can get it and become the new BBV bearer.

[Bane]

1.You should only be able to challenge the same person once a week.

2.Change 4 days to whatever the limitation is to challenging someone, not by much. But 4 days is to low.

3.level gain on BBV should only start counting once you get it and reset when you lose it. Also needs a max level.
Rewards could be:
Random spells casted. Both offensive and defensive.
Small DR increase
It should mainly just increase over all damage. Some type of damage buff. 1% damage increase up to a certain max.

4.Auto force wear is pretty lame. All someone has to do is ask who has it. And no flag next to your name either, We have enough flags. Possibly make the PK champion into the current BBV holder as loria said leaving the dimension they are in. Some places need to be fixed though. Several areas show up as general.

5. Should be no limitation of player level. If they take the risk to remort and go back to tier 1, then they take that risk. You could just go tier 1 and sit with it.

6. Should have a decent timer for accepting the challenge. Not everyone pays attention.

7.Playing around with the idea of if you loot their corpse you lose the BBV. May encourage more people to join in. Will also create less childish/immature drama.

8.Repeat kills should dwindle the rewards. Otherwise what stops someone from killing their friends alt over and over to level it. Its 4d, if someone can abuse a weak system they will.

9. Pk points should really be redone. Need a true point system and allow you to spend these points. Such as custom brags, or being able to customize the message for a skill. higher rewards could be good equipment that is low timered and !rent.

I love the idea that casters would get something useful to them. An untimered high powered focus would be something worth fighting for.  My only concern is that Priests are so overpowered. The two top PKillers in the game, currently, are both Priests with over 100 remorts.  Say what you want about having low HP. With a high wimpy and an unlimited ability to cast a full heal, they are hard to kill. And with 'lightning bolt' doing 2k+ damage each time, priests are nearly impossible to beat without the use of dirty tricks. Add a high stat'd, untimered focus to that, with all the perks that come with the BBV, it would be amazing if it changed hands very often at all.  But I digress; the OP-ness of Priests is for a different thread.

Priest can be countered.

I just got home from work Im sure Ill think of more later. But you should redo this thread with Nows method. List every step we need to discuss and go from there. Bouncing all over on a subject wont gives us the best results to obtain a good system.

Bad formatting I know im to tired to care.

[Bane]

Here's the expanded idea, it has technical concepts in case any builder wants to help out.

1. New stats for both casters and melee.
   -Melee get a high DR item on the bodypart we'll see fit, atm: ARMS. The stats on the BBV will change according to the PKills you have (this will be a separate kills scoring system, remoted on playes as flags, nothing to do with the code PKills)
   -Melee item evolves on these conditions: 10-30-50-100 kills = 3-5-7-10 Damroll/Hitroll/other stats, suggestions appreciated, just

It should have a high base DR Id say around 6. But I think the reward for leveling if thats what you wanna call it should be just a damage bonus. With small dr increases here and there.

4. a script will check every 15s if you're wearing the BBV, and send you a warning, if by the 3rd warning you're still not wearing it, it will PUFF and another PK can pick it up from the Champions Altar

I misread this at first, Once again forcing the player to have to wear the BBV is absurd. What if a player wants to wear RP gear cause they are rping? So they have to give up their bbv because they want to Rp? Just an example. Bad idea.

5. From the Champions Altar you can challenge the current BBV Champion, whatever he's doing he'll get a notification and in 1m both parties will be TPed to the BBV Arena.
   - If the champion loses the fight in this area, the BBV will auto-load in the winner inventory
   - If the champion wins will be rewarded with 3 kills
   - You can't challenge again the current Champion until someone else challenges him
   - We thought not to add any protection about this, whoever has the BBV must live with the hassle of being challenged 2, 5 or even 10 times a day for the right of keeping it. Again the stats are impressive, you want it, fight for it.

Im not sure what I think of how often. Alot of times a day would just make it an annoyance and hinder your enjoyment and progress in the game doing quest and exploring if you are getting challenged every minute. Maybe a day inbetween. It would still promote a healthy ammount of challenges and also allows the holder to still enjoy the game.

6. Every time you logout or idle out, the BBV will puff, when you come back you can go get it from the Champion Altar, it will remember that you're the current owner BUT if you don't go pick it for more than 48hours, 2 days, the magic will dissipate and forget who owns it. Any PK at that point can get it and become the new BBV bearer.

I disagree with this. This just makes inactive PKERS care less about it, If they will lose it in 2 days when they log in once a week they might bother at first but in the long run they will lose interest. This mud has a very small ammount of daily active players. To build this system around just a handful of active pkers is a bad idea. You need to include everyone, and understand not everyone has time to get on everyday. Giving someone who doesn't play everyday more of a chance to enjoy the item will promote this system.

I also see no reason for it to poof when you logout and have to reobtain the item. What purpose does this serve? Just an annoyance.


On another note, this should be coded not scripted.

also you should give the BBV holder more than a minute to respond. Having to log out just to use the restroom or get a drink is absurd. Also this gives the BBV holder no time to prepare while the challenger has made sure he has prepared before even challenging him. Can make the fight hugely unfair.

[Xeriuth]

Things that need to be addressed:
1. Would changes to the BBV make it more desirable?
    Also to consider with each change below, will they increase the chance of people wanting to get it back, or lose interest because it becomes to difficult and not  worth the effort.

2. Should it be PK only?
    Historically the BBV is a PK only item, or for PK's only primarily, with no checks in place. This does decrease the amount of people who use this features. Should it stay PK or a new item      
    created  similar to it, for everyone, and only for challenges. Maybe BBV for challenges and another new item or set of items for open world pk?
    If a new item were to be created what should it be called?

3. What wear slots should the new items be?
    Stay Arm for melee? Should casters get a focus?
    What should the stats be?

4. Should the items increase stats upon kill milestones?
    If so,
    By how much, and what should the cap be? (Perhaps add your progression path for the items, one for caster one for melee?)
    Should the 'experience' gained with the holder of the item reset upon losing it?
    If the item is difficult to level as is, should it really reset? You can only level it when you have it, unlike the Orcrist which one has all the time, making it easier to level. And  it doesn't reset.

5.  Should the BBV have a timer applied to it, that resets upon relog? If timer expires offline, the BBV should load in the BBV load room.  If so, what should the timer be?
or  Should the BBV poof upon logout/idle and reset in BBV load room

6.  Should auto-challenges be allowed?
     If so,
     Should it change owners upon death?
     Should challenges have to be done in person? Or can they be done from a BBV Champions Altar (BBV load room)?
     How long should the duration of the challenge last before expiring? And if denied, or the challenge expires, should it change owners at that time?
     How often can one challenge?
     Should BBV get it's own BBV Arena?
    
7. For open world PK...
    Should it change owners upon death?
    Can a BBV holder be double-teamed? If so, how would you decide the next wearer? Or should it be a legit 1v1 fight?
    Should the BBV be lootable?
    Should either of the players corpse(s) be lootable when the BBV is involved?
       If so, should there be limitations on the amount of items take-able, or make the exp on their bbv exp reset as punishment. (assuming the exp doesn't reset by default on bbv loss)
    Should repeat kills be allowed or have diminishing returns be scripted in. So upon a rekill of your friend the next reward is less.
       Also, how far back should it go. Example: a clan of 3 PK'rs could hook each other up and kill the other two members over and over and back forth to get full return without having killed the same repeatedly.

8. Should the BBV be forced to wear upon changing of owners? And forced to wear always?
    If not, suggestions for how someone can always know who has the BBV, if it changes hands often, you might not as easily know the current owner of it.
    Perhaps have the champion altar display or prompt who the current owner is?
 
9. After all these changes would you participate more actively in obtaining the BBV?
  
Also, keep in mind through this discussion, due to the lack of active coders much of this would need to be scripted. Not everything can be accomplished via scripts, that's why work-arounds would need to be provided and included behind the thought-process.
Example: We could have the current PK Champion be the BBV holder, but that would need to be coded.


***I think I hit all points in this post, if I missed any please let me know. Thanks!

[Molly]

Good discussion, with good points from several participants.
And thanks for summing it up, Xeriuth! 
Here are my own opinions on the BBV.

Things that need to be addressed:
1. Would changes to the BBV make it more desirable?

Definitely - but let's not go overboard. Whoever has the BBV is already "The strongest Player". Making it considerably better than all other equipment would be an advantage that he/she doesn't really need, and also making it harder for the BBV to change owner.

2. Should it be PK only?

I think it should, since it is a PvP object.
One possible idea could be to autoset both wearer and challenger as PK. As long as the challenge is valid or you are the BBV champion, you stay PK. After that you can pay to have the flag removed, if you wish.

3. What wear slots should the new items be? Stay Arm for melee? Should casters get a focus?

Making a separate item for Casters is a good idea, we can use my grizzled fur script for it.
Stay Arm for melee.
If there is a combination of stats that could make it equally good for a casters, I think it would be better to keep the same wear_loc for both.
Wouldn't "the best focus in the game" be worth a lot more than "the best arm item in the game"?
But if a focus can be balanced against an arm item, by all means let them get a focus.
But call it The Blue Bolt of Victory, so both items get the same abbreviation.

What should the stats be?
Don't go overboard on this (See point 1)
Slightly better than the best existing item for the same slot should be enough. The Prestige of having the BBV should do the rest.

4. Should the items increase stats upon kill milestones?

I don't think this is a good idea. We already have two levelling item - the Orcrist and the Golems, - and the scripts for those are very complex, and it would be hard to put in enough checks to stop all potential abuse.  (Also, see point 1 about not going overboard and point 7 about abuse).
The BBV is a unique item, that only one player gets. Let's keep that in mind.

5.  Should the BBV have a timer applied to it, that resets upon relog?

It definitely should, to avoid the situation when a bearer leaves for good, or stays away for a long time for IC reasons.
The Timer should be pretty long though, I think 3 days, allowing someone to go away for the weekend, without losing the BBV.
On the other hand, it should only reset on relog if the bearer stays logged in for at least half an hour. (To give other players a decent chance to challenge, and avoid a pattern of login/out once a day, just to keep the item.

If timer expires offline, the BBV should load in the BBV load room.  If so, what should the timer be?
or  Should the BBV poof upon logout/idle and reset in BBV load room
I think it's better if the BBV just resets on the bearer on log-in. Why complicate things unnecessarily?

6.  Should auto-challenges be allowed?

I think so, to avoid a person hiding out in their Clanhall to avoid challenges.

If so,
Should it change owners upon death?
Only if death occurs on a battle over the BBV, not if the bearer happens to die from a mob or other player during the challenge.

Should challenges have to be done in person? Or can they be done from a BBV Champions Altar (BBV load room)?
How long should the duration of the challenge last before expiring? And if denied, or the challenge expires, should it change owners at that time?
I think challenges should always trigger a message on a global channel that cannot be toggled off, so that everyone logged on can see them, not just the BBV-bearer and the ones in the same room. The message could be the one in the challenge social, only global. This part might need some coding, perhaps a dedicated global channel.

There should be a reasonably long timer, to give the bearer a chance to see it and respond. Perhaps 5-10 minutes?
Since a player might miss the challenge due to fight spam, it should then be auto-repeated over the global channel every 30 seconds until it's accepted, refused, or the timer runs out.

There should again be a reasonably long duration time after the challenge is accepted, to give the bearer time to finish what they are doing and equip properly, another 5-10  minutes maybe.

If there is no response, or the challenge is refused the band should autochange to the challenger.
It should however perhaps not be allowed to challenge a player who has the afk flag set.

How often can one challenge?
Not too often, that would be extremely irritating for the bearer.
There should be at least one days delay between challenges, perhaps more.

Should BBV get it's own BBV Arena?
I don't really see the reason for that.
But if someone else but me is willing to put in the work of doing one, by all means let them.
On a side note, I think Kvetch made some arenas for Horus that were never put in action for some reason. Perhaps we can use those.
    

7. For open world PK...

Should it change owners upon death?
It should - but no autoforce to wear.

Can a BBV holder be double-teamed? If so, how would you decide the next wearer? Or should it be a legit 1v1 fight?

Definitely no double-teaming allowed in a challenged BBV fight, that would be extremely unfair.
Even the attempt to do so, should be punished, if possible. Perhaps by autokilling whoever tries to jump in.
This might be one reason to have a separate Arena, if it cannot be controlled in any other way.

If it is normal PK, and not a challenged fight, a BBV-holder should have to take their chances like any other PK, i.e. they can be ambushed, double-teamed etc, but they keep the BBV if killed.

Should the BBV be lootable?
Definitely not. Nobody should be able to get the BBV without a proper challenge.

Should either of the players corpse(s) be lootable when the BBV is involved?
If so, should there be limitations on the amount of items take-able, or make the exp on their bbv exp reset as punishment. (assuming the exp doesn't reset by default on bbv loss)
I think it would be better to keep the BBV fights strictly to the BBV. So in a challenge fight the BBV changes hands automately, and no other looting is allowed.

Should repeat kills be allowed or have diminishing returns be scripted in. So upon a rekill of your friend the next reward is less.
Also, how far back should it go. Example: a clan of 3 PK'rs could hook each other up and kill the other two members over and over and back forth to get full return without having killed the same repeatedly.
See, this is the main reason why I don't think the BBV should evolve at all. Experience tells us that if a feature can be abused, it will be, sooner or later. The above are two example of how it could be abused. I'm sure our inventive players can think of more.
See also point 1 and 4 above.

8. Should the BBV be forced to wear upon changing of owners? And forced to wear always?
If not, suggestions for how someone can always know who has the BBV, if it changes hands often, you might not as easily know the current owner of it.
Perhaps have the champion altar display or prompt who the current owner is?

Definitely no force wear.
There might be several reasons why a player would choose something else for the wear slot.

I think the WHO list should display who the current BBV holder is. Both for prestige and info reasons, this would be a good thing.
 

9. After all these changes would you participate more actively in obtaining the BBV?

I'll take the 5th amendment on this.
  

Also, keep in mind through this discussion, due to the lack of active coders much of this would need to be scripted. Not everything can be accomplished via scripts, that's why work-arounds would need to be provided and included behind the thought-process.
Example: We could have the current PK Champion be the BBV holder, but that would need to be coded.

Agreed.
I think it would be best to get as much as possible coded.
At least the challenge, and how it affects the BBV-holder and the BBV itself would need to be coded, especially if we use a separate global channel for it.

It would also be nice to see the present BBV holder on the WHO list, this needs coding too.

Hopefully none of this would be overly hard or time consuming for a coder to do, you just need to drag them out of their cozy nest..

[Calypso]

Whoever has the BBV is already "The strongest Player". Making it considerably better than all other equipment would be an advantage that he/she doesn't really need, and also making it harder for the BBV to change owner.

I see what you are saying. However there are PKers, such as myself for instance, that prestige is a secondary benefit. The stats and other features on the item itself would be a main reason to go after it. However, one could argue that the BBV is all about the prestige and PKers like me are not the target audience. I guess that is something that should be decided upon.

One possible idea could be to autoset both wearer and challenger as PK. As long as the challenge is valid or you are the BBV champion, you stay PK. After that you can pay to have the flag removed, if you wish.

Going PK costs tokens, as does removing the PK flag. I don't think this should change or I can see a lot of whining happening by those who had to pay for their PK flag.

Wouldn't "the best focus in the game" be worth a lot more than "the best arm item in the game"?

sure would. however, as was brought up before, casters usually have the stats they need to succeed, so nothing could be offered in this capacity that would be of use to them. So how about we think about making the BBV a weapon/focus, rather than an arm equipment? We can talk about stats on it, make it slightly better than the better swords in game. Personally, that is something I would fight to get. A piece of arm gear, probably not so  much. but that is my personal preference. Others would have to make their opinions known on this.

 

But call it The Blue Bolt of Victory, so both items get the same abbreviation.

haha, i love it. And if we go with a sword for melee, can use Blue Blade of Victory.

4. Should the items increase stats upon kill milestones?

I don't think this is a good idea. We already have two levelling item - the Orcrist and the Golems, - and the scripts for those are very complex, and it would be hard to put in enough checks to stop all potential abuse.  (Also, see point 1 about not going overboard and point 7 about abuse).
The BBV is a unique item, that only one player gets. Let's keep that in mind.

Ok, I see your point. After considering your point of view, I think you are right about that. After all, one of the goals here is to have the BBV switch owners often so there shouldnt be too much time to level it anyway.

6.  Should auto-challenges be allowed?

I think so, to avoid a person hiding out in their Clanhall to avoid challenges.

agreed

Only if death occurs on a battle over the BBV [should it change owners upon death], not if the bearer happens to die from a mob or other player during the challenge.

agreed

I think challenges should always trigger a message on a global channel that cannot be toggled off, so that everyone logged on can see them, not just the BBV-bearer and the ones in the same room. The message could be the one in the challenge social, only global. This part might need some coding, perhaps a dedicated global channel.

cool idea!

There should be a reasonably long timer, to give the bearer a chance to see it and respond. Perhaps 5-10 minutes?
Since a player might miss the challenge due to fight spam, it should then be auto-repeated over the global channel every 30 seconds until it's accepted, refused, or the timer runs out.

sounds very spammy!

If there is no response, or the challenge is refused the band should autochange to the challenger.
It should however perhaps not be allowed to challenge a player who has the afk flag set.

My thoughts differ from yours on this one. This is why: If I wanted the BBV without fighting for it, I would just challenge the person when I know they are busy or away. If they are gone long enough, I get the BBV. If they are here, well alright I fight and lose. No skin off my back. That is why I think if the wearer refuses the challenges or fails to accept the challenge, the BBV should just auto load to some specific place, like the Excalibur.

As for the AFK flag, All I would have to do to avoid being challenged is keep my afk flag on all the time. But on the other hand, without this concept, it would mean the wearer has to be open for challenges the entire time they are online. Is that fair? Well, maybe it is, I mean after all, they are the one with all the prestige. If you want the glory, you have to be prepared for the battle.

There should be at least one days delay between challenges, perhaps more.

I am thinking more like a week.

no autoforce to wear.

agreed

Should the BBV be lootable?

Definitely not. Nobody should be able to get the BBV without a proper challenge.

agreed

Example: a clan of 3 PK'rs could hook each other up and kill the other two members over and over and back forth to get full return without having killed the same repeatedly.[/i]

a clan of 3 PKers, hm? Who could that possibly be referring to..... >_>

I think the WHO list should display who the current BBV holder is. Both for prestige and info reasons, this would be a good thing.

yes! I think that is a great idea!
 

9. After all these changes would you participate more actively in obtaining the BBV?

Yes! ^_^
   

[Molly]

If I wanted the BBV without fighting for it, I would just challenge the person when I know they are busy or away. If they are gone long enough, I get the BBV. If they are here, well alright I fight and lose. No skin off my back. That is why I think if the wearer refuses the challenges or fails to accept the challenge, the BBV should just auto load to some specific place, like the Excalibur.

Hmm - didn't think about that.
However, let's say ot loads on some altar somewhere, where anyone can get it.

What's to stop this dishonourable challenger from just running there and get it as soon as it is forfeited?
He might have to race some others for it, but since he's prepared, he'd stand a much larger chance of beating them to it. Hell - he could even be standing beside the altar, when he makes his challenge.

We've got to figure out some better way och dealing with the AFK prblem.
Suggestions anyone?

[Calypso]

What's to stop this dishonourable challenger from just running there and get it as soon as it is forfeited?
He might have to race some others for it, but since he's prepared, he'd stand a much larger chance of beating them to it. Hell - he could even be standing beside the altar, when he makes his challenge.

Perhaps it isn't an instant transfer. Maybe it loads on next zone reset. In the meantime, the WHO board announces that there is no current PK Champ, e.i. The BBV is up for grabs. It could perhaps be announced on the global channel that it has been forfeited and will load at the altar on reset.

Can I make a suggestion about the global channel? Maybe only PKers can see this channel since it only pertains to PKers. The global messages can get pretty annoying these days with all these messages that can't be toggled off.

[Kvetch]

If I wanted the BBV without fighting for it, I would just challenge the person when I know they are busy or away. If they are gone long enough, I get the BBV. If they are here, well alright I fight and lose. No skin off my back. That is why I think if the wearer refuses the challenges or fails to accept the challenge, the BBV should just auto load to some specific place, like the Excalibur.

Hmm - didn't think about that.
However, let's say ot loads on some altar somewhere, where anyone can get it.

What's to stop this dishonourable challenger from just running there and get it as soon as it is forfeited?
He might have to race some others for it, but since he's prepared, he'd stand a much larger chance of beating them to it. Hell - he could even be standing beside the altar, when he makes his challenge.

We've got to figure out some better way och dealing with the AFK prblem.
Suggestions anyone?

Yeah, if you have the BBV, don't go AFK, log out instead so you can't be challanged for it.  If you go AFK, you risk losing it due to a challange when you're gone.

Also, not fond of the "can't turn off bbv challange channel" as I'm already mega spammed with the "can't turn off deed channel" messages - though not as much as before as it doesn't seem to be as popular now as it was when it started.  It's hard for me to hold a conversation with someone when I have to keep scrolling up to see if I missed anything through massive spam.  Or to restring/build/etc.

[Leonardo]

If I wanted the BBV without fighting for it, I would just challenge the person when I know they are busy or away. If they are gone long enough, I get the BBV. If they are here, well alright I fight and lose. No skin off my back. That is why I think if the wearer refuses the challenges or fails to accept the challenge, the BBV should just auto load to some specific place, like the Excalibur.

Hmm - didn't think about that.
However, let's say ot loads on some altar somewhere, where anyone can get it.

What's to stop this dishonourable challenger from just running there and get it as soon as it is forfeited?
He might have to race some others for it, but since he's prepared, he'd stand a much larger chance of beating them to it. Hell - he could even be standing beside the altar, when he makes his challenge.

We've got to figure out some better way och dealing with the AFK prblem.
Suggestions anyone?

Why should we even deal with the AFK problem. You fight to get the BBV, fight for keeping it also.
It's the best slot item in the game, and it's given to the most cunning, strong and active players of 4D.

You lose it while AFK to someone? That's it, when you come back from AFK just go to the Altar and challenge that player back. End of story.

[Bane]

as far as global message being spammy, it should only make a global message to all only when someone is challenged and who the victor is.  the 30 second warning should only show up for the 2 involved in the challenge.