Roleplay and RPL's

[Kvetch]

As you know, we are trying to bring a little more roleplaying back into 4D.  It's time consuming and at times a thankless task made even harder by the fact that you have to really search to find out who wants to actually roleplay and who just wants to do stuff to get more/different stuff.  And it is hard to catch roleplaying newbies if there are no roleplayers on.  The quests are quite fun and interactive to begin with, but later on, you really want a person to rp with. 

4Dimensions won't ever be a hard-nosed roleplaying mud - we're much, much, much too lenient for that, but that's not to say we can't have some fun trying to make it fun for people to roleplay.  Now, having said that, I need help from the people that want to roleplay and want roleplay to be more focused on in 4Dimensions.  Whether you have or have not been a roleplayer, I want to know what your definition of an RPL (Role-Play Leader)is and what an RPL should do and should be able to do - and even what they should not do or should not be able to do. 

Currently, I think our best resource for an RPL is the alien invasion loader (provided they have access to using it) as it sets up the invasion as a roleplaying scenario with the RPL running the session like a GM would run a game.  There has been work on advancing that so different mobs would be able to invade certain areas and not just having aliens run amok in every dimension.  There is also work on making some of it be holiday related.  There are some games we've wanted to try out, but the lack of players at this time makes it difficult to do: ie: if there are only 2 players and I have to figure out who the mafia is and I'm not it.. kinda easy...

I'm currently trying to make it easier for RPL's to load things needed for their quests - though not just loaded for fun, trying to have a story behind why something is happening.  Ghosts/vampires/witchs/zombies are great for Halloween, but also would be great for an undead invasion of (choose your place here).  If RPL's are also able to restring items (I think Xerxes was working on something like that) then it would make it easier for them to create their own items (and not use up a bunch of vnums) for a roleplay session - also easier for them to do rp on the spot (or close to on the spot) than what we usually end up with now.

So, I guess what I want from players is to 1) know that we're trying to work on things and 2) I really do want to know what you guys want from your RPL's and maybe what you don't want from them.  Personally, I don't think they should have to strong-arm anyone into playing an rp session and if there aren't enough players, then I guess the session will just have to be dropped (even with all the planning that's gone into it) instead of them begging and pleading for people to play.

What is your definition of what an RPL does/should do/should not do?

[Mardo]

Quick thought:
We could have RPA's (roleplay assistants) that get access to the RP loaders and stuff.  They wouldn't get things like recho and login/logout messages.

[Kvetch]

I posted this on a different thread yesterday as I couldn't find this one, so here it is now - where it's supposed to be:

While in a way, I like the thought of RPL assistants, I can not see much of a benefit to them.  If I can trust someone with using the loaders, shouldn't I also be able to trust that person to not abuse the recho command?  The loaders are actually easier to abuse with actual game consequences, abusing the recho command could just upset the wrong people and have other types of consequences.

[Estidn]

Kvetchy,

       Since you seem to be spearheading the RPL's. I think we need to put some thought into the reward systems.  Currently, hero's are allowed to award a maximum of 20 (correct me if I'm wrong) award points a day. With the guideline that 10 is awarded for good RP (again correct me if I'm wrong).  The current rewards are as follows.

A restrung item (no stats, addaffects or containers allowed)       100 points
A pretitle in the WHO list (example Lord Tynian)                   200 points
Personalized login/logout messages (When entering or leaving 4d)   250 points
A personalized long decs (This is what shows of you in the room)   500 points
A personalised entrance/exit desc (this is like a poofin/out)      800 points
The ability to award RP points yourself                           2000 points

Another fact is that you can convey award points to bronze tokens at a rate of 10:1

This currently makes the restrung item worth a gold token, a pretitle worth two, login/out two and a half, and so on...
Yikes.
A proposed revision might be as such if you plan on keeping 10:1 ratio which I personally think should be scraped. If RP was so outstanding that it requires token awards the log can be presented to the immortals.

A restrung item (no stats, addaffects or containers allowed)       10 points   (Bronze)
A pretitle in the WHO list (example Lord Tynian)                   100 points
Personalized login/logout messages (When entering or leaving 4d)   100 points  (Silver)
A personalized long decs (This is what shows of you in the room)   100 points    (Silver)
A personalized entrance/exit desc (this is like a poofin/out)      200 points
A perz                                                                               
The ability to award RP points yourself                           9999999 points (Get Rid of this)

[Kvetch]

hrm.. I don't like the thought of being able to convey award points to tokens, but that was probably put in because there wasn't enough rewarding for rp - or maybe not enough rp going on  in the game - to make keeping the points worthwhile.  And yes, the ability to give award points yourself isn't actually an option unless you become an RPL.  Of course, I think half the stuff that *is* an option isn't actually coded in.  Looking at help awards, it looks as though rpls can only give out 15 points per day (currently not a problem and usually there's an IMM on that can award more if needed - it has happened).  Of course, it also talks about an RP jury of 3 people...   I suppose if people are actually spending their award points on getting things : like spending 100 points on getting a restrung item (I"m thinking it should be more like 50 myself as restrung items aren't too hard and can ad flavor to the roleplayer - I just think 10 is a bit low) then it would take a bit longer for them to get the 200 points for the pretitle (unless that's what they really want so that's what they save for and just spend gold on restrings (only 1 million coins, people!!).  I just don't want everyone and their brother and their brother's cousin in law, to have the top rewards right off the bat (so no, you can not have personalized entrance/exit for 10 points...    ).  I would like to get rid of the ability to convey award points to tokens (though I guess that is another way to make them use award points and not get the upper stuff) and if I look at it like that, then I suppose it could stay and we'll just figure out what where the hearts of people lie if the only way to get this stuff is through awards/rp then even with the convey, it's worth more as you can't convey from tokens to award points.  I've confused myself enough so I am done. 

[Kvetch]

The current 4D definition of an RPL is this:

RPL's or RolePlayLeaders are persons who are there to monitor RP-sessions,
and to give pointers/help concerning RP. So if you have any questions about RP
you can talk to them.

I think that's a good start, and maybe on games where you can sit in a room and prettily pose for people for hours on end, it could work.  I just don't think it goes far enough in our case. Yes, they are there to monitor RP-sessions, give pointers and help concerning RP, but how do they know about the rp first?  They usually have to initiate it.  Even our "roleplayers" don't do much roleplaying and whether that's because of lack of real interest ("I just got the RP flag so I can go into all of the rp zones...") or lack of roleplaying initiated on the mud.

To me, a roleplay leader ends up being like a game master in a roleplaying game - they come up with the plan of action, create things to be able to mastermind the plot, and then using all the tools of the trade, start a game for the roleplayers to play in - which ends with the completion of the rp adventure the RPL created/masterminded.   

This is how it worked in the past with Riley and myself.  She would come up with an idea - have me create all the objects/mobs/etc that she needed, tell me the rooms she needed them in and then I would have to do it just before she ran her game because you don't want people stumbling upon them and ruining the game - so it could be planned ahead of time, but the final details are done in the last few minutes. 

That is also the reason I've been trying to create items that helps the RPL's create their own objects/mobs - within reason.  It is also why I've been giving my RPL's zones on the build port specifically for building their objects/mobs/etc - because then I know it is exactly what they wanted.  They may need me to do the final touches (for now) but it is at least well on its way.

But having said that, nothing should ever be taken away from the ability to roleplay your character while sitting in a tavern - or while adventuring with a party and when the chance comes up to introduce people to roleplaying in that way, I'm all for it.  But it is all about telling a story - whether it's because the princess of Fenizia is missing (IS there a princess of Fenizia?  Who knew?) or someone's wife left them for a Saint - it's all conflict, action, reaction, storytelling!

[Calypso]

I don't know what the standard time limit on a session is in order to get points, and how many points to give for what, but after talking to Estidn in game a few days ago, I agree with him that a 30 minute session should yield 5 points. Currently, real roleplay is scarce. I personally do not see anything wrong with a restring costing 10 points since it would mean people would actually have to do 2 sessions. I would go even lower right now until picks up. I think we should make it very easy to use RP points right now to encourage people to participate.

Question: Does killing the RPL-loaded mobs and booting pumpkins etc count as roleplaying? Do they get points for that?

[Kvetch]

If the rp loaded mobs and pumpkins were presented in an rp fashion and not just strewn around the mud, I would say yes, people should get points for that.  If you don't have a roleplaying story behind why these mobs/objects are located all over the place, then no points should be rewarded.

On that note, it seems that there are no longer rp specific points everything is now lumped together as award points which people will be able to get doing a wide variety of things and not just roleplaying.  So, the points mention may seem high if we're only factoring roleplaying, but when you factor in everything else, it won't be all that hard to get them.  So, while I was considering lowering the point cost before, I"m half tempted to raise them now or everyone and their brother and their brother's cousin will have all the nifty stuff that only roleplayers used to get and roleplayers will only have the RP tag....

[Turin Orsini]

We are playing a text based game. Our imaginations are our graphics levels - some play with everything set to minimum, where others play in full HD.
The goal of a RPL is to create these images for people to interpret in there own way.
They are there to arouse  the imaginations of the players to cause images and feelings to spring forth inside of the players around them.

What is considered as RP though?
Is just loading mobs and saying "Oh my we are being attacked - quick kill them and save me" then mindlessly slaying mobs till they are all dead, roleplay?
On a basic level yes - not well thought out really gives little scope for the individual player to advance or drive a story in a direction, but for the most part is a way to get people who would normally not get involved with roleplaying, slowly involved in it.
Where do we go from there? I talk to people - ask them questions about who their character is, tell them about myself again arouse that imagination start them thinking. Once you have the player thinking work with them, help them to develop their ideas, give their thoughts substance, take that black and white image and make it colour then help them to see it in HD. Once you have done this you get players who look further with their characters they want to tie other game elements into their history. Clan pride starts to surface again. it is all a flow on effect.
Now when you have players who can imagine their character, who know who they are and how they would react to situations you need less props to engage them. The imagination is active and requires less to stimulate, ideas flow and the players become more active in their involvement.
I used to start a story with a group then we would go for a walk - wander the realms, use what is already in place and work from there, people would react to what was around them, players would bounce ideas and story between themselves, I was only a guide, I started the ball rolling and was there to keep momentum. This is what I aim for.
Now I tell stories, I suck people into another world entice them with the wonders of old, weave a story full of truths, half truths, and grandeur.
It is amazing how simply just sitting down and telling a story brings people to listen and gets people excited and wanting to hear more or progress more with their own ideas.
It is not easy work, and it should not be, if it is easy then you as an RPL are not investing enough of yourself into it - give it your all because the more you put into the more the players get out of it and in turn the more satisfaction you will feel as you see new role players formed and develop around you.

Just my 2 cents