Grouping

[Noinar]

Regarding mob targeting in groups, the first thought that comes to me (outside of a full-blown threat system, which would suck to code and probably break the server's brain) is to associate a percentage chance to become the mob's target for each skill.  These could be simple, like heal having a flat 50% chance to change targeting, or something more complex related to the effectiveness of the skill.

[Noinar]

If my recent posts haven't already shown this, I have a lot of free time at work to think about this sort of stuff.  I know some (not a lot) of C++, and I've got a pretty solid grasp of programming concepts and efficiency.  I pick up syntax quickly as well.  I could work on this during my downtime at work, if that's going to help people.  I can't connect to the MUD at work (port 6000 blocked =/) but if I had the source as text in one (or a few) email(s), I could work on writing some potential changes for more experienced people to review.

Edit: Looked around the site a bit more, and it looks like there's kind of an unspoken progression from builder->scripter->coder, so my expectations for this have been significantly diminished =)

[Kvetch]

Hmm.. you don't have to build to code.  Ask Thotts... Prometheus... Na.. umm.. Fizban.  Though knowing how to script (which is something you usually do when building) is a plus, I'm sure, though I seem to remember that Prom's not too good at scripting, but he's been doing pretty good at coding.  (or at least he wasn't as he was learning about the same time I was.)

Kvetchy

[Noinar]

Cool, thanks...I'll try to catch one of them this weekend.  During the week, they're only on when I'm at work =/

[Turin Orsini]

With grouping there has always been a group of players who powerlevel, these players then get to max level and suddenly realise that they nothing about the game and leave, no loss there really, but you did have one extra player for X months, or they start to realise this and they choose to explore and learn and then make a new character to start from scratch with and then move through the game learning as they go and catching up on the stuff they missed out on with their first run through. Other players weather we have fixed grouping or not will choose to do very limited grouping to no grouping as that is their choice, at the moment with grouping the way it is there is no choice you go solo or put in the time and effort if you can convince another player to group with you for no real return.
Most here played when grouping was fun and the mud was fun now - no grouping = no fun and it is showing, more and more time just spent idling at recall as well what else is there to do yes can go do a run here or a run there but its not the same as having other people with you killing enmass laying waste to the realms because of no other reason then we can.

[Mordecai]

Looks like it needs improving.
I have been working on it.

It will need some test situations to make the grouping just right.
But I am changing it so that combat isn't the only way you gain exp

At this stage, there will be an exp pool for support, and exp pool for fighting.

I have a clever way of doing it but, it will need help with testing it.


This is the basis of it:

Support acts will include all non-direct combat techniques, and healing, buffing, etc.
You will have 2x EXP Pools, one for gaining through support, the other for gaining through fighting.

So the player will have two EXP meters.

For example, currently to reach level 5, you need to have gained 349k EXP.

In this proposed system, your level will be based off the exp meter with the most exp in it.

So if you have 350k exp in your support exp pool.
And you have 90k exp in your combat exp pool.
You will be level 5.

If you heal your charmie and have it tank for you, you will gain support exp and reduce your TNL based on support exp.
Your combat exp will stay low.

If you want to change and start leveling through directly fighting, you can.
But obviously you will be gaining based on the combat exp pool, so you will need to first gain the difference between the two exp types, to take yourself to the next level.

So really, it will make it easier for people who focus on support, to stay as support the whole time, and visa versa, rather than switching between the two.

Obviously, once you are at level 50, it won't matter, since you aren't needing to gain more levels.


Now, one of the tests we need to do once the code is in, is start measuring how long it takes each class currently, alone, to get from level 1 to 20, then from 20 to 30, then 30 to 40, and 40 to 50.

Based on that time span, we will balance the support exp system, so that the general time will be similar.

I see this as supporting grouping in general, because it will remove competition of the combat exp from the tank.
So the tank and supporters can gain the combat exp split between them.
And same with the support people.

Based on this, skills in your skill list that count towards support will be indicated with a different colour than combat skills.

Anyway, early days yet.
 

[Prometheus]

We also need to make sure group spells work as well or tweak the way group spells work. I know that priests are going to want group spells working again.

Prometheus.

[kitolani]

What was wrong with the old code? Too much fellowshipping going on?   The best roleplaying of my youngling days were whilst camping for respawn. Beefiest hunters too. So I'm pretty much excited about whatever you guys cook up that'll help. Kitolani will always be a fledgling here because of her resistance to playing casters. Casters fail. It will be nice to have group support for grinding, so we can focus on more exicting things like roleplay and the uniquely fabulous questing system here.

[Prometheus]

The reason is that casters don't get any experience for casting healing spells. Mord is wanting to make sure priests can be useful in a group and make it worth using up the mana for their spells.

Prometheus.

[kitolani]

I know. What Mord says about making support classes gain exp by buffing, healing, whatever is a fantastic idea. It didn't all come together in a manner that made any solid sense in my mind with the two seperate pools, but it isn't very uncommon to find me befuddled in such matters. Where's Virisin when you need a translation of Mordecai's schemes?

[Molly]

Just please don't make it too complicated!

We need a change and we need it now.
Grouping is not just an exp issue, it's also the basis for social interaction in the Mud, and making it too complex will rather deter people from using it than encourage it.

[Saxon]

I agree with Molly. It used to work as it was before, the group leader apportioning exp to be gained to each member of the party, 100% that would be split as they saw fit. So who really minds if people get power levelled any more? Certainly it used to be a bit of a bug bear to the dedicated players that didn't enjoy seeing newbies levelled up to tier 3 or so within a couple of days. But things have changed now. The player base has dropped and that feeling of cameraderie that was prevalent has vanished along with the players. Looking back at previous posts on this subject, it seems this thread on grouping has been going on for so long that a simple option should just be instigated with haste.  Even if it is only a temporary fix whilst a more intricate code is worked upon for the next few months (which it will surely take to enable it to be balanced and not buggy), I would vote to just make it possible for players just to group and get on with enjoying the MUD. Don't let the place languish any longer, slowly choking while a new system gets tweaked and perfected. Get the newbies in, get them hooked by levelling them up enough for them to feel they can survive solo when nobody else is on to group with, that way they can start hitting and enjoying the questing side of the mud which is what makes 4d so unique after all.

Just my thoughts...

[Mordecai]

How about this as step one then:

- exp gets split between all people who just hit a mob, not based on how much damage they did.
- Involvement is always even between group members
- mob damage doesn't get split among the group, but instead only hits 1 person
- Chance to land an attack won't be affected by involvement any more, your group members won't get in your way.

Those are easy changes to do, and will bring it pretty close to the original system.
I have a feeling that this won't be the magic bullet though, but we will see.

[Kvetch]

Ya.. good first step IMO.

Kvetchy

[Molly]

I agree, please get it in fast.
Lately the pbase seems to have picked up a bit, so let's try to ride on the surge by making the game a bit more social and fun.

I don't think even the ones that objected the most in the past really care about potential powerlevelling any more. There seems to be a concensus that we need a change back here. We probably need to be a bit less anal about quests as well.

And honestly - is powerlevelling such a big deal? I got powerlevelled a lot in my old playing days, and I bet most of our older players did too, especially with their alts.