Author Topic: PK  (Read 48048 times)

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Offline Virisin

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Re: PK
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2008, 11:47:53 pm »
For gods sake, no one is going to loot you.. Unless you keep up this raving about it..

Offline erwin

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Re: PK
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2008, 11:56:52 pm »
Well, I think the underlying reason why single-loot PK and loot-all PK doesn't work is because of game theory. I'll try to list what would happen should both players be rational.

*I am taking full-loot PK to mean that your corpse can be fully looted, and single-loot to mean that only one item can be taken from your corpse

First scenario. Two people wish to PK each other, which kind of PK should they choose?

Player A thinks: Now, I should go single loot PK because if I lose, only one item will be looted from my corpse. If player B is full-loot PK, then I get more items, and yay me for going single loot PK.

Player B thinks: Now, I should go single loot PK because if I lose, only one item will be looted from my corpse. If player A is full-loot PK, then I get more items, and yay me for going single loot PK.

Result. Both will go single-loot PK.

Another scenario.

Player A is full-loot PK, and Player B is one-item PK.

Player B decides to PK Player A, thinking that if he loses, it's just one item gone. Player A, on seeing player B attacking him, thinks "Damn. If I lose, I lose all my items, and even if I PK player B back, I have to PK him many many many times and win to get my items back. Player A recalls, and Player B is left to find other one-item PKers to PK with.

Yet another scenario.

Non rational players that are full-loot PK, after getting PKed by those who went one-item PK, go and post on the forum to ask imms for help. Imms then decide that full-loot PKers can only PK full-loot PKers, and one-item PKers can only PK one-item PKers.

One last scenario.

Because of this ruling, only the experienced players that want some competition go full-loot PK, and the rest go one-item PK. Because of this division, very few people get the opportunity to PK each other, being in different camps, and the overall PK skill doesn't increase, because the better people to practice with are full-loot PK, which the inexperienced PKers don't want to PK with, because of risk.


Well...it *could* happen..

*This is also why I would like autoloot not to work with player corpses. It has to be a conscious choice if you want to 'fully loot' a player, or just take an item from his/her corpse, or take several. Would also be easier to diagnose a player's overall PK character. Eg, if that player repeatedly loots consciously, that shows something. If he loots one item, that shows something too. But if it was automated, we don't get to see his true character.

**Besides, melt-on-drop eq are terrible for autoloot. I tend to drop these instead of giving them to people, so I can understand people getting peeved when that happens.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 12:09:28 am by erwin »

Offline Iwku

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Re: PK
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2008, 12:13:59 am »
Great scenerios Erwin.

How I was thinking it would work would be: Player A is full pk and player B is one-loot pk.  So they fight.  If player A wins he only gets to get one item from player B.  If player B wins, he only gets one item from player A.  However if they were both full pk, then they could take as many items as they wanted. 

Offline Fizban

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Re: PK
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2008, 12:21:29 am »
I really think Iwku's idea would just lead to players killing you repeatedly if they wanted more than 1 item, which'd annoy you more in the end than if they just fool looted you once.

Offline erwin

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Re: PK
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2008, 12:23:12 am »
Nod. But, wouldn't that be something similar to the first scenario, eg, if you want to PK, you would go one-loot PK then. I mean, rationally, it doesn't matter if a full-loot PKer or a one-loot PKer attacks you, because you'll only lose one item from your corpse. Surely if most players think like that (to reduce risk), they would all go one-loot PK,  whether they are skillful or not, and a majority of one-loot PKers and a minority of full-loot PKers would result in everyone being one-loot PK then.

Even if say, a player is skillful and goes full-loot PK, it'll be a disadvantage to him too, because he can't loot more than one item from the one-loot PKers, and he'll lose all his items from the full-loot PKers, and his natural inclination would be to go one-loot PK, unless he is one of the best PKers.

So I would think that having one-loot PK and full-loot PK would result in a majority of one-loot PKers (ranging from wusses to above average in skill) and a minority of full-loot PKers (who are extremely skillful in PK). And this ratio would probably be stagnant, because there is no chance of anyone improving, by PKing each other to learn, because of inherent risk.

Offline Fizban

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Re: PK
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2008, 12:26:34 am »
Nod, I just know specifically, if I kill someone and want two items and can't take both, their dying again. (Similar to the scenario of you killing me and taking all my eq and then me having to kill you repeatedly to get it back except I wouldn't even need you to have killed me first)

Offline Iwku

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Re: PK
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2008, 12:54:20 am »
QUOTE:
"So I would think that having one-loot PK and full-loot PK would result in a majority of one-loot PKers (ranging from wusses to above average in skill) and a minority of full-loot PKers (who are extremely skillful in PK). And this ratio would probably be stagnant, because there is no chance of anyone improving, by PKing each other to learn, because of inherent risk."

I think you're wrong.  There would be the bullk of the pkers in the middle range, either wusses or above average fighting and then there would be the top end of elite pkers fighting.  Each category can fight and learn, just lose the amount they are comfortable with.  Eventually, as the wusses got better they would move up to above average and then eventually skillful. Skillful pkers would always have other skillfull pkers to fight, just makes it less intimidating for wusses to join in.  Why would any wuss in their right mind go for full pk against a skillfulll top tier pker?  That's just insane.

Offline Virisin

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Re: PK
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2008, 01:31:16 am »
If there was an option for one-loot PK and full-loot PK, and everyone was one-loot PK.. I'd go one-loot PK because I'd be an idiot not going one-loot PK.

This is a dumb idea, get over it.

Offline erwin

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Re: PK
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2008, 01:34:55 am »
The thing is, there'll be a max cap for the one loot PK.

Let's say the skillfulness of PKers are from a range of 1-10, and range 1-7 is the one-loot PKers, and range 8-10 are the full-loot PKers

I'm a one-loot PKer, I learn PKing, and I rise to skill 7. There is still no motivation for me to go full-loot PK, because the rest can kill me easily, and I'd lose my items. Hence I can't learn above skill level 7.

Something like that, at least.


Offline Iwku

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Re: PK
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2008, 03:02:28 am »
If there was an option for one-loot PK and full-loot PK, and everyone was one-loot PK.. I'd go one-loot PK because I'd be an idiot not going one-loot PK.


If there was such an option, and everyone chose that option then it would tell you something.  I still think some people would chose to go full pk to get the full loot.

Anyway, I am sexist! What about the Sicilians? Until recently they had different rules for female and male members regarding clan obligations towards going PK.

Offline Virisin

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Re: PK
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2008, 03:47:06 am »
If there was an option for one-loot PK and full-loot PK, and everyone was one-loot PK.. I'd go one-loot PK because I'd be an idiot not going one-loot PK.


If there was such an option, and everyone chose that option then it would tell you something.  I still think some people would chose to go full pk to get the full loot.

Anyway, I am sexist! What about the Sicilians? Until recently they had different rules for female and male members regarding clan obligations towards going PK.

Yes, it's saying people arn't THAT stupid. I hate the idea, but I'd still go one-loot PK if EVERYONE else was. Are you trying to argue that I'd go one-loot PK because I'd like it more? Don't be stupid.

What about Sicilians? What about DJ's you mean. They also have a rule regarding male and female members going PK.. But DJ's arn't really into RP, so meh.

Please stop making yourself look silly.

Offline Fizban

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Re: PK
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2008, 11:46:21 am »
Quote
What about the Sicilians? Until recently they had different rules for female and male members regarding clan obligations towards going PK.

I didn't make that rule.

Offline Iwku

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Re: PK
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2008, 09:18:58 pm »
I wasn't arguing that you would go one-loot pk because you liked it more. I was saying that if everyone decided to chose one-loot pk that it might tell you something - that maybe people would prefer to go pk and just lose one item.

And DJ's don't have a male/female rule regarding pk.  The dark side always offers choices.

I'm done with this conversation.

Offline Virisin

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Re: PK
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2008, 10:18:13 pm »
I wasn't arguing that you would go one-loot pk because you liked it more. I was saying that if everyone decided to chose one-loot pk that it might tell you something - that maybe people would prefer to go pk and just lose one item.

And DJ's don't have a male/female rule regarding pk.  The dark side always offers choices.

I'm done with this conversation.

It doesn't prove anything. Gah! What is it in the DJ fountain that causes such stupidity?

And yes, they do have a rule. Or they did, maybe Asmoday removed it to suit himself.

Offline Fizban

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Re: PK
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2008, 10:51:06 pm »
It seems silly. Iwku is bitching about people being afraid of being looted, yet people get looted less than once a month. In fact I have never been looted on 4D.