Author Topic: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.  (Read 13350 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tocharaeh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
    • 4Dimensions on Facebook!
Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« on: May 22, 2009, 02:20:56 pm »
    I have been thinking about this for a long time, and the reason being is that it has become rather standard practice to builders to try and make "the best in the game" eq which I really do not agree with.
When it comes down to it, we do not have set standards that say "items can only be this powerful or less". So my suggestion is, and I would be happy to help, is to create an actual 4D database of items, with their list of stats and so on, and create the standards.
    My biggest complaint is that there are certain items that are actually BETTER than gear from Gojira which in mine and several others opinions, should not exist. The reason being that Gojira is undoubtedly (and the leviathon) the TOUGHEST mob in the game. The rewards for Gojira should be worth the time and effort you must dedicate in order to accomplish such a feat.
    I should make a point to say that this is not for me to just simply pat myself on the back. This is about trying to push for EQ stat standardization so as to prevent further production of eq that is built to outdo another. Even in my own zone, no such eq exists. They are all similar stats so as to provide the player with the ABILITY to wear either one or the other, without either pieces being better than the next.
   If we do not have a standard by which builders must follow, then we will continue to have a constant power imbalance. As it remains, we have a very large eq imbalance because of their not being enough (or any) particular slot pieces available as they are continually ignored. We need to learn how to create a balanced eq system that provides ALL characters of ALL alignments, classes, and races with an equal opportunity to climb the strength ranks.

   Some further suggestions would be to abolish the !race flags, and !class flags. That would be a perfect step into the right direction. As for !alignment, I think it is semi-fine...but we all know my stance on our fluctuating alignment system (I hate it).

Anywho, thats all for now.

     -Tocharaeh
-Tocharaeh D'Araesth
The Dirty Ol'' Drow that time left behind in fear of obliteration!

Offline Estidn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 03:43:37 pm »
Hrm I would be fine with the !race and !class flag as long as they were removable with perzes. Perzes have been nerfed pretty hard with dt insurance.

Offline Kvetch

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 03:46:58 pm »
There are standards - check out the builders guidelines.  Problem is, too many exceptions have been made.  I can't get people to go to my zones because my eq follows the guidelines so once they've seen everything once, there's no reason to go back.  *shrug*

Offline Hayato

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 02:00:07 am »
While I have nothing against your pushing for a standardization/balancing of 4D eq, I do have a bone to pick with your main reasoning of your post.



Gojira isn't really THAT hard.  Sure it takes a lot of time, but as long as your can tank it, and can use a skill like behead or encircle, it's just brain-dead grinding until it dies (Gojira, not my brain, but I'm sure it works both ways)

Me and Horus both killed it twice each recently, I took about one hour and one death each try, and Horus only repeating it so he can prove he can kill Gojira without dying.  I am a T4 hunter with 11 remorts, with only warrior and ranger mastery bonus, so no, it's not that tough at all.


As for better eq than Gojira's, I'm going to assume you are talking about the silver topped cane, which I'm going to refute in 3 ways:

1) Gojira still drops the cosmic string.  No other item gives more than 4 DR on a wrist slot.  Cosmic string is 5.
2) Gojira's odd stone is actually maxloaded.  No other player can get the stone anymore, and for a long time now.
3) VE's silver topped cane requires you to complete no less than 3 separate quests, ranging from medium to hard.  I would say hands down, the set of VE quests are harder to do than getting to a point you can kill Gojira.



While I do agree with your point that new and incoming eq shouldn't be a contest to constantly outdo other zones in terms of stats, some eq ARE actually deserving of the stats put on them.

(Warning, long rant incoming)
I personally think the main problem is if people are sharing quest info for the more powerful quest equipment; it really hurts the entire mud in the long run.  To anyone who have been digging around for quest info, I would STRONGLY discourage you to continue down that lane.  Not only are you hurting your own experience in the mud, but also the builder who spent monthes and monthes of effort to make it enjoyable to quest in, every player who had to explore and do their quests via their own efforts, and even players who haven't done the quest themselves, because you have exerted no more effort than they have but you own an undeserving piece of equipment.  And if eventually EVERYONE in the mud owns a copy of that piece of quest eq, then what was the point of the quest existing in the first place?  The only result of that is the equipment gets nerfed, the zone gets revamped and made more difficult, and everybody suffers.

And I normally don't mind talking about the quests, but if people are going to ask questions BEFORE they even attempt to solve it themselves, players are seriously going to get annoyed.  Questing can actually be *enjoyable*.  So *PLEASE*, take your time, go through the zones slowly, and play the mud yourself!

*deep breath*

Ok, sorry to derail your thread Toch, but I think it's a problem that's somewhat related to your request (good eq that's too easy to get, not because the quest is easy, but because people are digging for quest hints and ending up doing a quest not completely on their own).

aka graham

Offline horus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 06:24:24 am »
This is to Estidn, for the last time perzes has not been nerfed because of DT insurance. It has been like this for a long while, according to Molly anyways. So, just get DT insurance already!

Offline Estidn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 12:53:24 pm »
Yes it has. Perzes are completely pointless now other than as a status symbol. I can have dt insurance more than ten times for the cost of what it would take to get a full set. DT insurance should be either more expensive or cost only TP.

Offline Tocharaeh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
    • 4Dimensions on Facebook!
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 05:40:55 pm »
My point is is that NO EQ should be deserving of stats that have broken the standards. Period. I would encourage zones to create eq SETS, but when it come down to it NOTHING is deserving of ignoring the standards. When you ignore the standards you create an imbalance.

Let's put it this way. We have millions of pieces of eq that are sadly wasted because most everything has negative stats that are pointless, and nobody touches them. We have a bunch of eq in common quests that everyone has. Not a single one of us truly looks unique. On top of that, we are aflood with !class, and !race flags which is ludicrous. Why? Because there are no other pieces out tehre to MATCH those pieces of eq earned from quests. Thus an imbalance is in play until someone bothers to make something to balance out the system

As for the gojira thing, I am skeptical to believe it because the most powerful players who have soloed it, who have completed all of the quests there were to complete, took longer than an hour AND incurred a death or two when doing so. Gojira is hard. Unless you have brace, Gojira hurts a lot. Period. Espcially when Gojie manages to combo the fireball and backstab, or just fireball you twice in a row. Trap aware is great for retreating, if she's managed to snare you, but trap away can also fail, I know form experience considering I've killed gojira three times, being one of the few to actually solo the monster without a healer standing by, abusing the group heal bug, and so on.

But this post isn't about Gojira, or VE.

This is about an imbalance of eq stats. Races are being completely neglected, as are classes. Exceptions to the rules should never be made unless there is a special EVENT that goes on. And we have those pieces of EQ already, with timers. Artis have timers. Quest equipment needs to follow the standards provided.

When zones by Kvetch, and otehrs are completely ignored because people have been given BETTER choices due to these exceptions, we as the mud have failed HER, and other builders who have put a great deal of time creating for us.

I feel that the amount of eq rewards from quests should be lessened so as to provide players with a greater opportunity to actually find other pieces of eq around the 4d galaxy without being stuck to a single given piece because it is the best in the game. It is unfair to the building staff who do not see their pieces used.

On that note, I would even find it reasonable to create actual level requirements rather than !race, !class, and !align flags. The reason being is that instead of having someone such as myself pile through levels like nobodies business because I'm all souped up at lvl 1, I jump 30 levels in 5min...instead, we have to actually wear eq appropriate for our level range. We have the complete capability to do it as far as I know, it's in our builder screen when we make items...so it must be supported. Many of you may not agree with me, but it is what I feel is neccessary in order to force the pbase into actually going about and visiting zones taht they would otherwise not touch because it is below their power status.

As for the DT flags, I agree with Estidn to a point. Dt flags are a great idea but they do make perzes somewhat obsolete because...DTs are the reason why we get perzes, to protect One timer eq from vanishing forever. In the end I beliebe that One timers should not exist, and taht we should have a less expensive perzing system to allow for players to just have their eq prettied up. The players have that right to look unique. This is not about char descs, because many dont even bother...you don't see the descs anyhow when you look at someone, ya gotta finger them instead..(..heh) Players should be able to customize their persons, and it would bring a great deal of extra flare to the mud.

We're behind the times when it really comes down to it. All I am trying to do is get the idea cogs turning, and a move for progression. 4D needs to do more for the players as a WHOLE, not for the select few.

We have an imbalance, and have had it for as long as I can remember. It is timer to move towards fixing that imbalance rather than cause players to play more of one thing rather than what they want to because nothing in available to them.
-Tocharaeh D'Araesth
The Dirty Ol'' Drow that time left behind in fear of obliteration!

Offline Prometheus

  • the bang your head against the wall coder.
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 365
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 11:39:15 pm »
Guys we need to stay on topic and not throw in outside topic references ie dt insurance and perzs. Keep it on topic or I might lock the thread.

Prometheus

Offline Tor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 04:23:52 am »
This forces me to wonder why so many exceptions to the builders standards have been allowed? I realize that it is a lot of work on the senior admins to go over the items that the builders create, but shouldn't the builder be expected to note them on anything outside of the guidelines?

Thanks to Prometheus for keeping the discussion on track.

Offline Molly

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 691
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 04:29:59 pm »
i am not sure what all those exceptions to the rules that Toch are talking about are.
Perhaps you could give me some examples? - apart from the silver cane, which as far as I understand needs the completion of 4 different quests to get.
Quest equipment has always been excepted from the equipment rules, which are set up to ensure that the equipment you get from killing mobs is reasonably balanced to the hardness of the mob. It is in fact stated in the guidelines that more points are allowed on single items in a zone, PROVIDED they are really hard to get.

Which are those pieces of equipment from 'common quests that everyone has'? I wasn't really aware that 'everyone' had done the harder quests, like Seti's Tomb, the Diplomat quest or the Roger Young quest. As far as I know the best items are from the hardest quests, but maybe some of them are not hard enough. I have my doubts about the equipment from Enchanted Lands and Cosmo Canyon, but that is mostly because there was some terrible blabbing around those quests for a while, so everyone and there grandma was told what to do to get the stuff. I'd go as far as to say that the quest blabbing is much more of a problem than the equipment itself. If people stopped blabbing and asking for quest info from others, we'd all be better off.

But if you ask me to nerf existing equipment, better be prepared for the whining that will ensue. We've gone through this procedure in the past, and it led to an uproar then. And to be honest, I don't really believe that the unbalance is as big as Toch claims. But I am willing to reconsider, if you manage to convince me.
So convince me - give me something solid to work with, like for instance a list of all the pieces you think are overpowered, and a reason why you think they are. Like Quest being too easy, or whatever.


Offline horus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Suggestion to QEQ stndardization, and power balancing.
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 11:44:53 pm »
No No No No, nothing is overpowered!!!!  ;)

If anything, they are too nerfed!!! Yes, right everyone?