What should be done about GM?

[Calypso]

I voted for the last 8 remorts idea. (Mainly because it was my idea) However one thing that I think would need to happen in conjunction with this is the experience needed per remort no long increasing. Have it just be set.  Someone with T4 at 50 remorts shouldn't need anymore than someone T4 at 80. Unless of course there is some sort of minimal benefit of remorting more.

Good point. Currently, there is no benefit to remorting after 50, only drawbacks. Seems we should add one or get rid of the other.

How am I to get to my 500th remort if I have to level through 2875298743928743098740291384 xp per level? *sheesh*

[Tor]

So, everyone gets the skills of their last eight remorts, a bonus for new players and those that have chosen to not do the classes they consider hard to level. And the people that have worked for the bonus of GM receive a net loss?

How does one get to place their second vote nine voters, twelve votes? The voting option doesn't seem to be available to me after I cast one vote.

[Virisin]

Mastering all the classes already gives you inherent bonuses with the Masteries. GM just ruins any potential specialization and benefit we can add to classes. Trust me, you will not experience net loss.

[Tor]

I always feel so much reassurance when someone, trying to sell me something, tells me to trust them. 

[Virisin]

Mastering a class already gives you these bonuses:

Priest     -20% magic damage taken
Thief      +100 attackpoints
Warrior   +1 to damage multiplier
Mage      +20% magic damage done
Hunter    +100 defencepoints
Ranger    -20% melee damage taken
Gypsy     +20% melee damage done
Esper      +25% magic damage done

which are pretty obviously powerful just on their own.

Someone with 20 remorts say, does indeed potentially benefit under this, in that they will notice more skills/spells available to them. They still do not have all the masteries a GM currently would have. The people that have worked for the bonus of GM still have all the masteries they achieved, and they also will find that instead of having all of the tier 2 skills and spells, they will have up to the tier 4 skills and spells of their last class as well.

Having the skills and spells of another tier 4 class is arguably better than having all the tier 2 skills and spells, but the main benefit is that it allows us more variety and dynamics within the classes than just: Hi, I'm an everythingclass.

[Prometheus]

Something we might want to consider this is from Fallout series is to "tag" 2 classes and you get the benefits of those classes with the various masteries. It is still the same idea as the 8 remorts but you would get special bonuses for your tagged classes. Not sure if it fits in this discussion. Or maybe we could have special abilities which can be tagged from the classes.

For example:
1) If you tagged cleric you can have for example a bonus to healing spells or your buffing spells last longer (Remember this is off top of my head so it might not make sense right now)
2) If you tagged warrior you can have a bonus to your combat skills or you can have a bonus to your AC which makes you more of a defensive tank like character. Or you could choose more damage and be a damage dealing tank.

Prometheus.
I'm going avoid the trap of saying weather or not we should get rid of GM.

[Once]

Sort of like class mastery now, but more advanced? What would be a couple class examples? Let's flesh through warrior, gypsy, and priest so we can get a grasp on what this involves.

[Bane]

I dont like the idea at all of having all tier 4 spells/skills for the last 2 classes you played. Everyone is going to have priest.


I like Proms idea.

My opinion is that we take all possible class combinations and give each one special masteries and special skills/spells

Example
A. Priest-Esper Bonus to evil spell damage because esper is your secondary. Then give them new skills/spells that are maybe evil align.
B.Priest-Esper Bonus to healing, then add in a different set of spells/skills.
C. Warrior-Thief Bonus to speed, etc.

My brain cant think of spells/skills atm but you get the general gist of where I was headed anyways.

[Prometheus]

I understand about class mastery but what I'm saying is a bonus and maybe negative. For example in Fallout you have a perk that makes you move faster (more action points) but you carry less weight (-50 pounds carry weight) Another example is quick learner which gives you move skills points a level but you only get perks every 4 levels instead of every 3 levels. So you get a plus but you also have a minus as well. Sorry I didn't explain myself more clearer.

You would still have class mastery but you could focus your class more. Using my example for the priest:
+ to healing spells and less mana to cast healing spells
- more mana to cast other spells outside of healing and longer delay to re-cast.
And for the other example of going the buffing route:
+ less mana to cast buffs and longer duration of buffing spells
- More mana to cast healing spells and longer delay (Can only cast any healing spell once every 30 to 60 seconds compared to healing anytime in combat)

Hopefully this will give everyone some ideas for tag ie perks. (Sorry I called them tag skills but perks is a better name or we can call them whatever)

Prometheus

[Jaros]

Bane, we have eight classes.  That means something like 29 possible combinations if you're only talking about double classing and exponentially more if you want to think about triple or quadruple classing. That means that coming up with "one special mastery and special skill/spell" for each class combo and ensuring that each one is unique and balanced enough to make each class combo worthy in its own right and not just a waste of time and effort, that's quite a task.

Prometheus, I can see a perk system being great if all skills/spells were available to every class and then put a lot of time into constructing perk trees for each class that make the different types of skill/spell more or less valuable to them, but I don't think that will happen.  I think stacking more perks on things at this stage would be a waste of time when the real problem lies with the eight classes and their skills/spells.

Classes are too similar, GM doesn't help.  The easiest way to make classes unique is to place it somewhere on a scale of aggressive -> defensive and adjust their skills/spells accordingly, then balance it.  Then get rid of GM.

[Bane]

Sorry Prom I shouldnt of used the word Masteries. Perk would of been better word of chose. But I was agreeing with you.



I played a mmorpg that did a dual class system and it was really interesting. It was a ripoff of WoW called Runes of Magic. Secondary class didnt just only give them new/spell skills but it did other things such as lower delays on spells/ or increased your multi slightly for a certain spell. Each dual class had different things done but also each class them self gave a perk that was across the table. Like Rogue-Warden you had different spells/skills then say A Mage-Warden. But both  would get 2 handed axe ability because they chose warden as a class.

You also had to level each class separately. It just made it cool because you could swap your classes say from Rogue-druid to Druid rouge and play a completely different style of game play.


I know its just a fairy tale dream, but any direction we go is alot of work. Im just throwing out ideas, someone may see something they like from an idea and use it.

[erwin]

I think it would be good to consider exactly why people want to level.

My reasons for levelling were: No emphasis on PK - and GM makes it easy to explore the gameworld. Need to bear in mind that 4D is more focused on Questing. In that case, keeping the skills for the last 8 remorts without any other changes would lead to certain combinations being chosen over the rest. I'd say Priest and Thief, only because of buffs, "pick", decent speed and damage.