Starting out as Gypsy/Thief Temporary Fix

[Bane]

When choosing classes as a newbie, these are the 2 hardest classes to play starting out.

Why?

The have no combat skills/spells early game.

Solution

Till we are able to smoothly add  in new skills/spells.. I think we should do a temporary fix and give them kick.

For one, if you choose Rogue you get kick as a skill because of Rangers having it. But if you dont choose Rangers as your class at level 10, than you lose the practice points you put into kick.

I cant see it overpowering either class, and until we can add skills/spells down the road, Its not going to hurt anything, might even make a few newbies stay longer.

[Prometheus]

It wouldn't be too hard to add kick to gypsy and/or thief in the code. If others think it is a good idea I can do it quickly.

Prom

[Sarias]

I would enjoy that. Thief and especially gypsy skills are lacking for like the first three tiers.

[Virisin]

Temporary fix or longterm equalization of classes?

[Prometheus]

Well since all classes now have an in combat skill at t4 which out does kick I would think it is long term but I could be wrong.

Prom

[Virisin]

Figures

[Pix]

Would it be better to have a skill similar to retreat for Gypsy / Thief instead of kick, but perhaps at T1?

[Bane]

The purpose of adding kick to their skills for now is just to help the begginer players out, untill something else can be though of and added.

Having retreat would not really help a begginer at killing anything any faster. I needed some type of combat skill that would allow the player starting out as a Gypsy or Thief kill things quicker at tier 1, consider every other class in this game has a combat skill at tier 1.


This is just a short term fix, untill something else can be though of and we have the time to discuss the changes and add them.


And thanks Prometheus for adding it.

[Virisin]

You cannot seriously believe this is a short-term fix..

Though I guess it's not such a bad thing, maybe the route to a classless system is actually to just give every class every skill and spell.

[Bane]

How is it not a short term fix? Its evening out the start of classes.

In the long run I would like to see different combat skills for each class in the low level tiers, that add a uniqueness to them but until something can be agreed upon and put into effect this does no harm other then helping people out.

You need to look at these classes with a fresh mind with no experience in playing 4d. Your autoattacks are slow, gypsy call lightning skill can be dangerous and they have kick up to level 10 starting as a rogue and its taken away if they dont pick ranger class.

If you could elaborate more on what you mean, might be helpful.

So until another idea can be made yes this is a short term fix.


On another note, I never see 4d going classless. To big of an overhaul for us to handle.

[Pix]

The purpose of adding kick to their skills for now is just to help the begginer players out, untill something else can be though of and added.

Having retreat would not really help a begginer at killing anything any faster.

You've obviously not used retreat in conjunction with thief classes then.

[Bane]

new players will be exauhsted to fast to use retreat and bakstab.
guess i should clarified that before

[Virisin]

What do you mean 'different combat skills for each class'... So instead of all the classes having kick, we do what we did with behead/cleave/thrust/encircle and just give them all different names? If you want all the classes to have a unique fighting style then you're going about it entirely the wrong way: looking at the Gypsy's and going, 'Hmm, they are slow and shitty compared to other classes in the low tiers if you don't remort into them from a kicking class... They should probably just get kick.' - is a useless way of fixing things.

For starters, Gypsy's arn't even meant to be a super powerful class, they have economic skills that make them a valuable class to everyone that knows them without having to try and make them equal to a Thief or Ranger in combat.

Ehhh.. Just give Gypsy's kick it's easier than anything else.

[Pix]

new players will be exauhsted to fast to use retreat and bakstab.
guess i should clarified that before

Which is why I said something similar to retreat. Perhaps I should have clarified that it could be a skill that uses less movement? In any case, exhaustion happens if you spam retreat and backstab.

I do not know whether kick should just be the solution. My idea would be:

-A skill like retreat (at T1) which does not use as much movement / or a passive skill which cuts down movement loss.
-% of HP a mob should have or below before you cannot backstab. I'd say 10% at T1, 20% at T2, 35% at T3, and 50% at T4. Can have some reason like: "weak thieves do not seem to be a threat, so mobs tend to ignore them etc"
-Blackjack to be able to be used indefinitely on mobs which are the same level or below, without any lag time, and lag time for mobs which are of a higher level.

The result might actually get people playing the rogue classes in a style different from melee classes.
 

[Bane]

What do you mean 'different combat skills for each class'... So instead of all the classes having kick, we do what we did with behead/cleave/thrust/encircle and just give them all different names? If you want all the classes to have a unique fighting style then you're going about it entirely the wrong way: looking at the Gypsy's and going, 'Hmm, they are slow and shitty compared to other classes in the low tiers if you don't remort into them from a kicking class... They should probably just get kick.' - is a useless way of fixing things.

For starters, Gypsy's arn't even meant to be a super powerful class, they have economic skills that make them a valuable class to everyone that knows them without having to try and make them equal to a Thief or Ranger in combat.

Ehhh.. Just give Gypsy's kick it's easier than anything else.

Cause we have any type of Economics in 4d?

And who says I agree with the tier 4 skills?

Im sorry this isint some uber extreme change that makes it interesting to play while you are a gm. Instead of complaining that they got kick, start coming  up with an idea and plan to replace kick with something. That would be more constructive then this.


@Pix

I see what you are saying, and its an idea like that I would want to see be given to them. But till it can be agreed on, kick is in.

I rather have kick in and a few players stick around instead of whine on newbie channel again that the classes are slow and never see them back on.