Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!

[Mardo]

As of right now, you can convey award points into tokens.
10 award points = 1 bronze token

I think we should just have a general award point system for RP/bug reporting/typo reporting/adding things to the game/building.

So I was thinking something like...
75 Points = Add one room onto house
150 Points = Custom pretitle
200 Points = Custom login/logout message
300 Points = Custom long description (when you are in a room)
400 Points = Add a script to an RP item
500 Points = A "free" perz
800 Points = Race Change

[Kvetch]

So you're saying these points should be worth more than the current award points you get from rp?  Reason I say this is:

RP award point rewards:
REWARD                                                             COST
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A restrung item (no stats, addaffects or containers allowed)       100 points
A pretitle in the WHO list (example Lord Tynian)                   200 points
Personalized login/logout messages (When entering or leaving 4d)   250 points
A personalized long decs (This is what shows of you in the room)   500 points
A personalised entrance/exit desc (this is like a poofin/out)      800 points
The ability to award RP points yourself                           2000 points


I'll admit that the points do seem a little high and I'm sure when they were made, people thought there would be more rp going on in the realms.  Adding a general award point system for doing anything isn't going to help any.  I also admit that personalized entrance/exit doesn't seem to work and I don't know about the long description or even the personalized login/logout.  And to that:

bug reporting - do this or you can have bad things happen to you if you are found abusing a bug - isn't that its own reward?
typo reporting - I admit, I try to give some sort of token or something after x # of reports, but then I get swamped and I forget.  Rynald, I think I owe you about a million tokens.... *mutters*  Adding things to the game/building - there are 2 innate rewards for doing so 1) you get to see your item/area being used 2) you get a plaque or sign or something your name on it that will forever remain and I think there may be some tokens involved for building an area - I forget what though.

The reason the above items were added for rp and not for the general public was because custom pretitle/login/logout messages/longdescription when in a room - is all basically "roleplaying" stuff.  I think it'd been mentioned before to possibly have it be given to the general population, but all that does is take away from roleplaying which doesn't need anything taken away from it.

[Kvetch]

I'm going to try to answer Xeri's questions the best I can.

1) I've forgotten the "do not perz" list already and the reason behind not perzing them, but I think any item that depends on the s-desc or such for a script, really shouldn't be perzed.  I mean, really, how many players are going to say "Hey, I shouldn't be able to do this because of a script..."  Ok, they'd probably think it along with "but since it's not working right.. mwaahahahahaha..." 

2) I have a hard enough time keeping up with my items in the game and was never good at knowing the good items anyway so, I have no say on what should be on there that isn't.

3)  Shoot.. the way people were asking me for statless rp items, I was starting to think it was too cheap.  Right now gold means nothing (unless you're a newbie then it's the world).

4)  I've always liked the idea of people being able to restring anything, but... and I have to look at this in two different ways.. as a builder, I have a problem with it because now 1) I don't know who, if anyone, is using my stuff just by looking at them and 2) I spent quite a while trying to come up with that spiffy name and backstory for that Battleax of the Dragon Spine Mountains, and you're going to change it because "sorry, it just don't go with my outfit" - well, leave my battleax alone and go find something that does - if you want the ax, you can take the name.    Now, as the RPL overlord, I have to look at it like this: so, isn't it more of an RP thing to have people work on their outfits so it goes together.  In most games you get what you find, you don't get to rename it.

5) I do think it would devalue perz's, I also think it would make people be a bit more conscious on where they walk/flee to (I'm sorry, can you still flee into a DT?).  What cost would make it worth while in my mind and not devalue the perz's so much?  More than 1 silver.  After all if it costs only 1 silver, then I can hit a dt/accidentally junk my restrung item 7 times before the cost of it becomes more than a perz - so.. why would I perz anything again?  I really don't see any incentives to perzing an item instead of restringing it at the cost of 1 silver.

6) 15 perz limit?  Most of the time I was making them I forgot to check.. and then when I did, I was trying to figure out... ok, that's a key, does it *really* count as a perz?  I never counted them... or bags/containers for that matter, it may have the players name on it, but it was more rp to me than perz.  I never understood the 15 limit.

7) Duplicates:  The problem with this is the "got them legitimately" part.  How would anyone ever know?  Cati ends up with 15 copies of one perz who is to say how she got them?  Right now we know she's got 14x the trouble when she's found holding them.  With whatever hiccup caused the current mess of duplicate perz's being so recent, I'd be hesitant to let duplicates go in any time soon.

  I've always let people buy perz's for other people - so long as the other person wasn't at their 15 max (when I thought to look for it).  But yes, buy it for them, they get to do what they want with it.  The purchaser in this case would no longer have access to that item (unless the person it was bought for put a script on it).  And even with that, I would say it would be up to the receiver if they wanted a script on it, not have the purchaser put a script on it that let him/her use it (who knows, maybe the recipient really doesn't want them to use it.

As for having plenty of vnums - make sure I know what zones you're using for this.  I would hate to overlap with building zones.  And I also find that 100 objects doesn't last nearly as long as you'd think it would.

[Molly]

As most of you know there has been a glitch of some sort, which caught several perzes to duplicate.

Now, as most of you also know, duplicates are not allowed.
The reason for this is mainly that the hardcore PKillers go bananas if they have looted a perz from an enemy, and then find that the perz was restored to the owner by some unknowing imm, who had no clue about it being looted in the first place because the looter logged out with it.
And the reason why they go bananas is apparently that it isn't nearly as irritating for the owner, that someone else is holding some of his priced personal belongings ransom, if he managed to get a duplicate for it himself.
Now, personally I may find this all rather petty and childish, but it is a rule that has been established long ago, at the explicit wish of the players, and since I don't really care about it, I let them have their way.

But I can also see why players would like to have a spare in their house if they happen to lose the original in a DT and there is no imm on line to reload it immediately. So I gather that is why people decided to keep the duplicates, even though they knew well enough that it isn't allowed. That is also why there won't be any punishment apart from losing the extras without compensation.
However, rules are rules, and should be respected, so when it was reported I posted a note to everyone, telling them to junk their dupes, or we'd do it for them with a coded script.

What irritated me a bit about that is, that the only player to apologize and junk the duplicates on her own ackord was Calypso, while some others decided to keep their dupes in spite of heavy hints to get rid of them. It actually irritated me enough to go into some houses and junk them manually, instead of waiting for the script.

The script is going to be implemented however, and that brings me to a technical problem - House Recalls and Keys.
These items may have the alias perz along with the name of the house owner, but they aren't really perzes. It's also allowed to have more than one House Recall or key, since there usually are several guests to each house. And a script isn't intelligent enough to determine if the alias should be there or not.

So, if any of you know that you have an item like that, with the alias perz, please note me or Kvetch, so we can remove the alias before the script is implemented. Otherwise a lot of people might suddenly find themselves without house recalls.

[Calypso]

5) I do think it would devalue perz's, I also think it would make people be a bit more conscious on where they walk/flee to (I'm sorry, can you still flee into a DT?).  What cost would make it worth while in my mind and not devalue the perz's so much?  More than 1 silver.  After all if it costs only 1 silver, then I can hit a dt/accidentally junk my restrung item 7 times before the cost of it becomes more than a perz - so.. why would I perz anything again?  I really don't see any incentives to perzing an item instead of restringing it at the cost of 1 silver.

Good point. A reload is 1 silver. The perz itself is 7 silver. So perhaps somewhere between 1-7 silver. Say 4 silver?

[Xeriuth]

I found this old thread about this exact topic, with a poll.... http://4dimensions.org/forum/index.php/topic,720.0.html. It seems no one was exactly opposed to it. In two cases they were ambivalent. So I will add the machine to the game, I just need people to agree upon prices.

I would like to set a restring at 1 silver temporarily, when award points get hashed out, it will cost award points to buy restrings. Fair?

Note: I'll edit the non-perz list and give more options on difficult to perz items due to scripts on the item. If it's too difficult to do it will stay on the non-perz list.
        The current list of special scripts is posted by Mordecai east of Recall. As people want these scripts I'll develop script templates to make it easier in the future.
        Also these rules for special scripts will only be valid with me doing the perzes, so best catch me! E-mail always works if you can't flag me down in game.
        This will further separate the perks of perzes compared to restrings.

Lastly, do you want it so only RPL's, Helper's, and Hero's can use the machine for other players. Or make it usable by any person with the RP flag?
Note: A log file will be added for restring to keep track of everything made with it using the script.

Let me know.

[Calypso]

Now that our very own Xerxes is back, can we continue the discussion on a "Restring Machine"?

[Kvetch]

Make it useable by anyone with the RP flag.  If it was RPL's only there is a possibility they could get swamped - there aren't really that many anyway.  Helpers have enough to do with helping people and have no reason to have to dip their hands into RP stuff (which is what a restring machine is).  And there's no reason to mention Heros as the flag isn't being given out any more and they are few and far between these days.  Those that do show up are recall squatters (usually) and probably wouldn't have time to do it anyway (there are a few exceptions to this rule).

But the problem with that is -when you restring something you can name it anything you want, and there are some things I'd rather not see people running around with.  Which makes me want to put in the one level above check of having it be the RPL's job, but again, there isn't enough of them and I really don't think they should have to make the call of whether the name wanted on the item is a valid name or not.

I still think the cost of 1 silver is too low if you're able to restring an item that has stats on it (other than a container), but on the other hand, I would love to see this become a money-sink (currently money tends to just sit in banks and really isn't used for anything), but to have that viable, it would have to cost more than whatever a silver token can be convayed to - or at least what a silver can be convayed to.

My 2 cents.

Kvetch

[Tor]

The only reason that I have had anything perzed for myself or anyone else is more rp than anything else. That and being told by imms that I cannot restring an item that has stats. Without a way to change the descriptions, we all start looking like a bunch of twinkies. The perzed items that I've paid for are all wearable by anyone that gets there hand on them, and respond to the old keywords, making it more difficult to know which item you are affecting. This makes it especially hard when looking, examining items in a room while exploring.

It might also encourage some players to experiment more with combinations of equipment, than to adopt the attitude that Jimbob is an awesome gypsy, I must duplicate what he wears to be good.

As far as the non-perzed list... well, there are always exceptions aren't there?