4Dimensions Forum
General Category => Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: Johnkarner on February 22, 2011, 05:46:28 am
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I'm just making a thread about spells because they seem badly organised.. And I was wondering what other people thought:
Currently there are spells like demonshreak that arn't much better than spells like fireball.. Even though demonshreak is a tier 4 spell that requires -1000 align, and fireball is a tier 1 spell.. And with 'mind fire' fireball gets better anyway.. Some spells cost far too much mana for the damage they do, and some spells have timers so you can't cast them more than like once a day. Undecided Some caster classes don't get spells that compliment their elemental strengths - or if they do, they're the crap spells that either cost too much mana, or have timer delays on casting multiple times..
Basically it seems a shambles, either spell strength should depend on what tier you get it, and should have mana cost and timers to match, or they should be strategically placed so each caster class gets some good spells that work with their elemental strengths aswel as getting the 'mind' spell to match them..
Or even a new spell system that just let's us research our own spells, name them, give them their elemental strengths, and have their strength depend on how strong the caster is, aswel as when we researched them.. Researching could cost cash, more cash = stronger spell.. (up to a limit of course).. It'd also mean we wouldn't need so many spells that just don't seem to make sense..
Thoughts?
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>:( >:( >:( >:(
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No spell should require an alignment any of any kind. If anything you could have a spell that decreases your alignment because it is black magic that you're using. But I've been saying this for 10 years now...
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My goal at some point is to work on spells. I have another thread on new spells and spell tweaks. I could see using evil spells making you more evil like demonshreak.
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Why not scrap alignment altogether? And fix the minimal things it does affect? One of those features that is more of a nuisance than any positives it may currently bring
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I like how alignment plays a role in certain quests though... just puttin that out there!
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Right, there aren't many quests as is that alignment affects. That would be the minimal things it affects that would need to be fixed. Or perhaps just make alignment static. And dependent on your align, the path you take in a quest (those that use alignment) is forced. So you don't have a choice, just because of your affiliation. Now despite being static you can always pay or mini quest to have it changed. This way you dont have to worry about who or what you kill and know what align you are always.. just thoughts
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Amazing how the first post of this is word for word what Virisin posted March 2nd of 2008 (except for that "Undecided" bit where Viri had a face...). And the arguements are basically the same. I'm not saying that this doesn't need to be discussed - 3 years ago it needed to be and today it does as well. Nothing's changed - not even the opening arguement. :P
For my part, I've gone through and listed the spells by their spheres of influence thinking that it may help someone else come up with another idea.
AIR
Air Elemental
Control Weather
Flight
Group Shield
Haste
Heart Squeeze
Knock
Magic Missile
Meteor Shower
Poison 3
Shield
Suffocate
Vitalize
DARK
Darkness
Detect alignment
Detect invisibility
Detect magic
Detect poison
DEATH
Animate Dead
Demonshriek
Dispel sanctuary
Energy drain
Evil eye
Harm
Lifesuck
Magic Bubble
Poison 4
Protection from Good
Soulsmash
Earth
Antidote 3
Armor
Corrupt Armor
Create Food
Earth Elemental
Earthquake
Group Armor
Midas Touch
Steelskin
Stoneskin
Strength
Thorn Shield
Weaken
ELECTRICITY
Call Lightning
Chain Lightning
Electric Blast
Lightning Bolt
Mind Electricity
Recharge
Shocking Grasp
Static Shield
FIRE
Antidote 1
Antidote 2
Battle Rage
Burning Hands
Burning Skull
Dispel Good
Embue Armor
Facemelt
Fire Elemental
Fire Shield
Fireball
Flame Arrow
Inferno
Mind Fire
Minor identify
Nightmare
Protection from Cold
Wall of Fire
ICE
Chill Touch
Cone of Cold
Hold Person
Ice Shield
Mind Ice
Numb Mind
Paralyze
Poison 2
Slowness
LIGHT
Blindness
Color Spray
Cure Blind
Forsee
Infravision
Invisibility
Mirror Shield
Protection from Evil
Sense Life
MIND
Charm
Clone
Confuse
Curse
Divine Mind
Fortify Mind
Gate
Group Recall
Locate Object
Locate Person
Psi Panic
Sleep
Sweet Dreams
Teleport
Word of Recall
SPIRIT
Absolve
Bless
Cure Critic
Cure Light
Dispel Evil
Enchant Weapon
Fortify Body
Group Heal
Heal
Holy Shield
Holy Shout
Holy Word
Life Transfer
Mana Blast
Mana Shield
Mana Transfer
Remove Alignment
Remove Curse
Sanctuary
Summon
Wall of Force
WATER
Acid Arrow
Create Water
Mind Water
Poison
Protection from Fire
Water Elemental
Water To Wine
Waterwalk
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Shouldn't Magic Missile and Meteor Shower be either Fire or Electricity instead of Air though?
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Hey, I only put down what they list when you type spells - talk to the people that coded it. *hehe*
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Magic missile is a missile of force or air. Now meteor storm could be fire. If you want me to I can change MS to fire. I could also see poison 3 being under death or dark as well.
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Death already has poison 4, so I think giving them poison 3 would be redundant. It looks like they were trying to make the poisons various elemental poisons - Water has 1, Ice has 2 and air has 3 with the mother of all poisons (4) going to death because it really is going to kill you - eventually if you have high hp's.
I look at the very few spells listed under dark and I'm not sure that it wasn't just an afterthought. Something like "oh, death has too many good spells so we'll just put these under something else... let's call it dark..." And they aren't really all that good of spells - except for detect invisibility (which could easily be under light) I'm not even sure anyone uses any of them, but I've never been a good spellcaster so I could be wrong.
I'm not sure how exactly you get your elemental strengths and weaknesses, but I assume it's got something to do with race. And I'm not sure if it really has any affect on the game (Prom, could you let me know?). But it would be nice to really let it have an affect where you cast your elemental strength spells better than soemone without that elemental strength and you defend against your elemental strength better than someone that doesn't have that elemental strength (and the opposite of having difficulties with your elemental weaknesses...)
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Who is this guy copying me..
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A few suggestions in the realm of spells, let me know who else agrees with any of the proposals.
1. Locate Object become T2 and or also available to the caster or caster-like Mage, Esper, Priest and Gypsy. This will give this novelty spell to them as well as GMs. Why have to rely on an alt when you are a GM or why not be able to locate objects when having the gift of magic on a larger scale compared to other classes?
2. Perhaps elementals for every spell discipline, on top of the already air, water, earth, and fire. So additionally Death, Dark, Electricity, Light, Mind, and Spirit. Light perhaps being good only, and Death evil only? Could also perhaps add other things such as elementals stronger/weaker dependent upon weather/room type/caster's charisma or proficiency in that spell discipline. Other ideas welcome.
3. All poison spells available to players, perhaps the stronger poison spells like poison 4 only castable once an hour/multiple hours/day. Good classes for this could be Esper/Thief/Gypsy/Ranger... some or all
4. Magic Bubble have some counter spell to dissolve it. Just as you can break a snare now. You can wake after being put to sleep or blackjacked. Why have a spell that completely disables casters, no way of popping the bubble?
That's all for now, will have more later on I'm sure. Let me know what you think!
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1) I can see adding the other spell casting classes to Locate but keep it at the same tier.
2) This will need to be discussed somewhat.
3) This might be possible too. Needs discussion.
4) This was discussed a while ago but it dropped out. I could see a new spell coded in to dispel magic bubble or maybe a general dispel magic spell which strips off most spells but has a decent chance to dispel magic bubble. Sort of like in D&D you had a small chance to dispel magic on the spell that stopped all spells from 3 or 4th level or lower.
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1) Works, all casting classes at least should have it, and at least opens more classes of alts to have that can locate, if GM's don't have it.
2) Lets discuss? What does everyone think about more elementals? what tiers should they be? should tiers vary with your tier? maybe have elementals work like golems to a point? Your elemental is summoned via the spell, and can gain levels, more you have it out, gain exp from kills lose exp from deaths. Just an idea. Again all ideas welcome!
3) Simply up for discussion, do you want to see the powerful poison spells available? If so what classes, or no classes, and on an item, or castable via scroll of sorts.
4) I'm in favor of a dispel magic, however if you cast it on yourself to remove a spell and chance of magic bubble, you could be stripping away all of your own buffs, more of a cast on self for adverse magic on you, and on another to remove any spell randomly perhaps?
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Wanted to revisit this, to get more input..
1) Locate object available to more classes? Yes/No?
2) Variety of Elementals, now available to all classes?
3) Spells like poison 2 3 4 become available to players? Maybe in forms of scrolls or staffs.
4) Magic Bubble dispellable?
5) Perhaps other spells like 'Identify' become available? Instead of using scrolls all the times?
Any other skills/spells you'd like to see changed? Post and discuss!
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Spells should be made less available to all classes rather than the other way around, although with all older players being GM it doesn't really matter so the only thing I'm really fussed over is magic bubble. It needs some kind of counter.
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Wanted to revisit this, to get more input..
1) Locate object available to more classes? Yes/No?
2) Variety of Elementals, now available to all classes?
3) Spells like poison 2 3 4 become available to players? Maybe in forms of scrolls or staffs.
4) Magic Bubble dispellable?
5) Perhaps other spells like 'Identify' become available? Instead of using scrolls all the times?
Any other skills/spells you'd like to see changed? Post and discuss!
1) Maybe. We will need to discuss this.
2) Maybe.
3) Maybe
4) Heck yes hehe. Magic bubble needs to be able to be dispelled. (More like this will be a wand and not a castable spell. This has been discussed before)
5) Possible. My feeling is it would be a t3 /t4 spell so not everyone can get it. Probably mage / esper / priest.
Prometheus
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1) Yes please
2) What point do elementals have any more other than walking luggage? they cast the occasional spell, but so what? Is there anything else?
4) Is magic bubble even in the game any more? Did people stock up on those wands or something?
5) Disagree. As it is now, id scrolls are pretty much one of the only things people spend gold on. Its not much, and its most likely not even often. But I would keep it that way.
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1) So who else besides gypsy , ranger , esper should get locate object?
4) Spellinfo says Magic Bubble is still available but it is for gypsy / esper. But people do have scrolls of MB.
5) This is still open for discussion.
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Why should anyone else get locate object?
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mage and hunter?
just seems to me like a skill that would be in both of their lists. *shrug*