Author Topic: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!  (Read 14663 times)

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Offline Xeriuth

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Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« on: October 28, 2013, 11:58:14 am »
Currently there are two type of ways to have a personalized look in 4D, Perzes and Statless RP gear.

Perzes are 7 silver plus 1 silver for reloads if they are lost as well as 1 silver for scripts added to them. 

Not all items in the game can’t be perzed, these items can be found on the board east of Recall. Ideally the items on the non-perz list are items with scripts that if the item were perzed it wouldn’t work quite right. 

If one simply wants to look snazzy and not get a perz of an item and keep their stats they can get RP gear that has no stats which the price is set to 1 bronze or 1 Million coins, if memory serves?

Recently there has been a change to code that allows the ability to restring any equipment, statted or not, however there has been no price for this action officially set. This restring ability changes the appearance of an item when worn as well as the namelist of the item only.  Since this option could further help cater to RP purposes I wanted to open up a series of questions and perhaps follow-up polls to make sure everything is addressed accordingly.

Please answer each question with a Yes, no, or simply comment about it.

Are there any items currently on the non-perz list that should be perzable, why?

Are there any items not currently on the non-perz list that should be on it, why?

Is the current price of statless RP gear acceptable?

If you had the option to buy restrings of your current gear would you?

Do you feel having the option to restring your statted gear would devalue perzes? Why? (Are there enough incentives to having a perz that would outweigh getting items restringed)

What would be an acceptable price for statted RP gear (coins, tokens, tradepoints, award points, etc)?

Any other questions, comments, or concerns please address as well. If something you feel should be opened to a poll, say that as well. But if everything seems relatively one sided and change could happen much quicker than not.
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Offline Xeriuth

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 12:37:03 pm »
Some other questions I thought of in regards to perzes:

Should there be a limit of 15 perzes per person? Higher limit? No limit?

Should one be allowed to load extra perzes for themselves and have duplicates? This is of course at a cost of 1 silver per?

Should the person purchasing or rather the one that owns the perz be the only one allowed to wear/wield it?
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Offline Xeriuth

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 04:46:30 pm »
This is the current list of non perzable items.
The following items can not be personalized and more may be added in the future:
- ALL Mine equipment
- Anything that is poison 3 or 4
- Heavy stone shackles
- The sword Orcrist
- The sword Memory
- The dark sword Sorrow
- Martin's Holy Armour
- The bloody horntips of the Minotaur
- The scaled legs of the green dragon
- Achilles' heel
- The *shining* armor of Achilles
- The scourge of Tisiphone
- A crinkled leaf
- Robin Hood's Official Greencoat Dagger
- The cool dagger
- The Rainbow Serpent's skin (May be perzed only once)
- A cosmic string (May be perzed only once)
- A -mythril- bracelet set with the Gravity Materia
- Grizzled fur
- Ghostly Shimmer
- Henna hand tattoo
- ALL artifacts
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Offline Xeriuth

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 05:22:20 pm »
I will answer the questions as I would have liked to see them when I played:

Are there any items currently on the non-perz list that should be perzable, why?
Heavy stone shackle
The legendary longsword Memory
The dark sword Sorrow
Martin's Holy Armor
The scaled legs of the green dragon (I think this should be 8 silver to 1 gold to perz, where the script that sprouts wings can be altered for RP purposes, think of it as a specialty perz)
Achilles' heel
The *shining* armor of Achilles
A crinkled leaf (if you really want to pay to reload it every 2399 minutes)
Robin Hood's Official Greencoat Dagger (Again 8 silver to 1 gold to perz, where the script whistles a merry tune can be altered for RP purposes, think of it as a specialty perz)
The cool dagger (Again 8 silver to 1 gold to perz, where the script says you look cool wearing this dagger can be altered for RP purposes, think of it as a specialty perz)
Rainbow serpent skin (already perzable once)
a cosmic string (already perzable once)
a -mythril- bracelet set with the Gravity Materia (Again 8 silver to 1 gold to perz, for the demi script which can be altered for RP purposes, think of it as a specialty perz)
ghostly shimmer (many have this perzed already, so why not)
henna hand tattoo (again perhaps 8 silver to 1 gold, the script on it that prevents one from using it without having done the quest for that hand in particular would need altered to be able to be used upon reload, again think specialty perz)

Then a few items I think should stay are:
ALL Mine equipment (Timered and should be recollected when going tunneling/mining again)
Anything that is poison 3 or 4 (All of these are timered and relatively short to my knowledge, would it be worthwhile to pay a silver for one of them when some are relatively easy to get anyways)
The scourge of Tisiphone (There are multiple scripts on this weapon which would have to be altered if perzable, which the price could be raised to compensate that, but it's not a sought after weapon as is, so I put it here)
The sword Orcrist (it's tooo complex of a script to even mess around with, perhaps 30 gold for this perz eh?)
Grizzled Fur (might have an exception for this if the perz price is 2.4 gold, for three separate items [caster, fighter, rogue] Would need something for it to change into on all occasions, so three separate perzes essentially 2.1 gold + 3 silver for each script on each item. I think this is excessive so threw it into the non-perz list. Unless people would like this option?

Are there any items not currently on the non-perz list that should be on it, why?

The Mighty Pen (unless the perz cost is doubled and extra silvers are added for the extra scripts to modify for both items)
a falcon (it is fairly exclusive as is, since the quest is quite hard and it has a lot of scripts)
--that's all I can think of off the top of my head

Is the current price of statless RP gear acceptable? Yes

If you had the option to buy restrings of your current gear would you? Yes

Do you feel having the option to restring your statted gear would devalue perzes? Why? (Are there enough incentives to having a perz that would outweigh getting items restringed)No, I think perzes have enough perks in their own right. You can add scripts to them such as ones for protection and you can reload them without having to redo a quest for an extra of said item. A restrung item can't have anything added to it. It is what it is. Once lost, it's lost and would have to be restrung. Not permanent in nature.

What would be an acceptable price for statted RP gear (coins, tokens, tradepoints, award points, etc)?1 silver is what I would suggest.

Should there be a limit of 15 perzes per person? Higher limit? No limit? I never liked having a 15 perz limit personally. If it is an economy sink then why not? And allows the player to keep nostalgia if they want it. Win/win

Should one be allowed to load extra perzes for themselves and have duplicates? This is of course at a cost of 1 silver per?This is debatable. I don't really see it as a large deal myself, if it makes the game fun then why not? If people are opposed to duplicates at all, then duplicates will go. If everyone is fine with it, then the rule on duplicates can change, as long as they are gotten legitimately. Either way we'd start from square one with everyone having one of a perz and can work up from there if need be. That is my suggestion at least.

Should the person purchasing or rather the one that owns the perz be the only one allowed to wear/wield it?I think this would be acceptable. It has it's perks. But there are other ways to think about how to go about this. Perhaps an authorized list of people whom can use the perz. Or a command could be added that can summon all equipment that you are owner of such as perzes to you from no matter where they are in the game. Misplace your cane, or it got stolen? Well just summon it to you. It could be a perk script available to perzes, further separating them from restrings. Simply ideas.

Let me know what you think on all this, your thoughts alone, your thoughts on my thoughts?
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Offline Calypso

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 06:42:36 pm »

Are there any items currently on the non-perz list that should be perzable, why?

What is the purpose of making things non-perzable?

That said - Golems should be perzable.


Are there any items not currently on the non-perz list that should be on it, why?

Again, I don't really understand why some gear is not perzable. I assume the reason some gear is not perzable is to avoid abuse of some kind. If it is to make certain equipment more elite than others, well that's a bit lame. If you want a piece of gear to be elite, make it hard to get! If you are going to have perzes in the game at all, why not just allow all items be perzable? If someone is willing to pay for it, why not? Really, how does it disturb the game?

With the one exception of timered objects. The point of timers is to put an end to their owning it and to make them go back and get it again from the beginning and to give everyone the chance to own the object (if it is a limited quantity item). Reloading it as a perz by-passes that intention.

Is the current price of statless RP gear acceptable?

I suppose.

If you had the option to buy restrings of your current gear would you?

Absolutely! I love this idea! I would gladly pay to have my statted gear renamed.

Do you feel having the option to restring your statted gear would devalue perzes? Why? (Are there enough incentives to having a perz that would outweigh getting items restringed)

That is a tough question. Personally, I would likely only perz the super hard to get items if I could restring anything I wanted. I would definitely pay the extra money to perz certain items like the Orcrist and things that are insanely hard to get.

What would be an acceptable price for statted RP gear (coins, tokens, tradepoints, award points, etc)?

Whatever currency that is required should not be too difficult to get since it doesn't really give the player any real advantage.  It is simply for looks and in turn will increase the RP aspect of the game.

Should there be a limit of 15 perzes per person? Higher limit? No limit?

I am generally against giving a perk to one person (in this case, leveling a playing field) by taking away the rights of others. What is wrong with having more than a certain number of perzes? The player worked hard to earn the tokens and should be given the chance to spend his money however he chooses. Players who have been here longer and/or have done lots of work to gather more money SHOULD be given the opportunity to spend it in reasonable ways.... and spending it on his own legally-obtained gear should be an option.

Should one be allowed to load extra perzes for themselves and have duplicates? This is of course at a cost of 1 silver per?

I am with Xeriuth on this one. If the duplicate is obtained by going through proper channels and paying for it, why not? Again, why not just let the player who worked for the money and gear, have the chance to spend his money on his gear?

Should the person purchasing or rather the one that owns the perz be the only one allowed to wear/wield it?

I think the rights of the gear goes to the person to whom it belongs. If the owner of the perz wants it to be restricted from anyone else using it, by all means he can pay to add that script. If a person buys a perz for someone as a gift, they should realize, as in the case of any gift giving, the item belongs solely to the recipient, and they no longer have rights to the item.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:47:51 pm by Calypso »
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Offline Kvetch

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 06:50:39 pm »
From Xeri:

Rainbow serpent skin (already perzable once)

Note: it also can not be double worn, so why should it be able to be perzed more than once.

From Caly:

That said - Golems should be perzable.

The way the golem script works, it works off the short description of the object, thus, golems can not be perzed.  Sorry.


Offline Xeriuth

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 07:57:48 pm »
What is the purpose of making things non-perzable?

That said - Golems should be perzable.

The purpose of making some things non-perzable is if they have a lot of scripts or a complex script on the item that if the item were perzed, it would conflict with the actual object. I tried to break down the items in my response as to the ones that have scripts that would have a somewhat adverse affect on if it were perzed and how to remedy that.

Again, I don't really understand why some gear is not perzable. I assume the reason some gear is not perzable is to avoid abuse of some kind. If it is to make certain equipment more elite than others, well that's a bit lame. If you want a piece of gear to be elite, make it hard to get! If you are going to have perzes in the game at all, why not just allow all items be perzable? If someone is willing to pay for it, why not? Really, how does it disturb the game?

The idea is to make as many items perzable as possible. If there isn't a real need for it to be perzed then it shouldnt be on the non-perz list, or perzing it becomes more difficult to perz because of some scripts or the scripts can add more flare to it, then a little extra cost should be able to be tacked on to alter it?
 
With the one exception of timered objects. The point of timers is to put an end to their owning it and to make them go back and get it again from the beginning and to give everyone the chance to own the object (if it is a limited quantity item). Reloading it as a perz by-passes that intention.

well if a timered item is perzed the perz has that timer when it is reloaded. So, if one doesn't mind paying a silver every time their perz poofs then why not? Of course there would need to be exceptiosn to timered items due to technicalities like tinkers and staves.  A staff can't be perzed, but it could be restringed.  Same with tinkers.

Absolutely! I love this idea! I would gladly pay to have my statted gear renamed.

That is a tough question. Personally, I would likely only perz the super hard to get items if I could restring anything I wanted. I would definitely pay the extra money to perz certain items like the Orcrist and things that are insanely hard to get.

How much do you love this idea? 1 silver enough? Remember, as I said before there are things to restring that perzes can't do, like staves, tinkers, artis, etc.  With that said does 1 silver begin to seem fair enough?

Whatever currency that is required should not be too difficult to get since it doesn't really give the player any real advantage.  It is simply for looks and in turn will increase the RP aspect of the game.

I think tokens and/or award points would be the way to go. Since it's an RP function it would be fitting. While coins and tradepoints are in too much abundance for them to be useful currency in my opinion. If we figured out a way to combat inflation. Like purge all gold coins in game and start over? At the same time lower coin drops on mobs. Then coins could become more useful..

I am generally against giving a perk to one person (in this case, leveling a playing field) by taking away the rights of others. What is wrong with having more than a certain number of perzes? The player worked hard to earn the tokens and should be given the chance to spend his money however he chooses. Players who have been here longer and/or have done lots of work to gather more money SHOULD be given the opportunity to spend it in reasonable ways.... and spending it on his own legally-obtained gear should be an option.

In many cases having more than one type of perz is redundant.  Like two serpent skins can't be worn together, so why make two?  As for limits, yes, there isn't really a reason to put a limit other than it saves some vnums, but we have plenty as is..

I think the rights of the gear goes to the person to whom it belongs. If the owner of the perz wants it to be restricted from anyone else using it, by all means he can pay to add that script. If a person buys a perz for someone as a gift, they should realize, as in the case of any gift giving, the item belongs solely to the recipient, and they no longer have rights to the item.
Well it depends how buying it as a gift is deemed. If the person buying it for someone puts it in their own name it. It is technically theirs. If they choose to put the giftees name on it, then it is their and the buyer loses any right over it. Same goes for signing perzes over to others.
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Offline Calypso

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 08:30:57 pm »
The purpose of making some things non-perzable is if they have a lot of scripts or a complex script on the item that if the item were perzed, it would conflict with the actual object. I tried to break down the items in my response as to the ones that have scripts that would have a somewhat adverse affect on if it were perzed and how to remedy that.

I didn't realize the reason behind putting items on a non perz list was due to scripting conflicts. If there are scripting conflicts, then there are scripting conflicts! Why ask which things to take off nonperz list if its there because it is logistically impossible to perz them without messing up the script?

All other items should be removed from the non-perz list though, in my never humble opinion. It doesn't make sense to allow perzes on some but not others (exception being the above stated reason). I reserve the right to be sorely mistaken on this issue but I don't see any harm in perzing all possible items if perzing is allowed on any item at all.

 
Quote
well if a timered item is perzed the perz has that timer when it is reloaded.

things that are timered have timers for a reason. I really don't think timered items should be allowed to be perzed at all. That allows certain players to break the rules as long as they have the money for it. I think the best way to handle timered items is with a restring.

Speaking of restrings:
Quote

How much do you love this idea? 1 silver enough? Remember, as I said before there are things to restring that perzes can't do, like staves, tinkers, artis, etc.  With that said does 1 silver begin to seem fair enough?


I think tokens and/or award points would be the way to go. Since it's an RP function it would be fitting.

Actually award points is a fantastic idea. I am with you on that.

Quote
In many cases having more than one type of perz is redundant.  Like two serpent skins can't be worn together, so why make two?  As for limits, yes, there isn't really a reason to put a limit other than it saves some vnums, but we have plenty as is..

Why make two? Because the purchaser WANTS two. Maybe one is for an alt. Maybe one is a backup. Maybe one is to hold up the TV in their house. What does it matter WHY they want it? If it gives them no advantage, then why make restrictions? Seems arbitrary to me.

Quote
Well it depends how buying it as a gift is deemed. If the person buying it for someone puts it in their own name it. It is technically theirs. If they choose to put the giftees name on it, then it is their and the buyer loses any right over it. Same goes for signing perzes over to others.

Agreed. Whoever's name goes as the owner is the one who gets rights to it.
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Offline Kvetch

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 08:37:48 pm »
I was going to use quote to point this out, but seriously get confused when there are 2 people being quoted so...

With the award points, are you saying to actually have them choose to either use the award points for the restringing or saving them to get the rp reward points?

Offline Calypso

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 08:56:06 pm »
I think all rp items should be given the option to pay for in rp points. Otherwise, most people will never never use their rp points. It takes way too many to get any perk. So give players choice- token or award points, perhaps?

What would be the equivalent of a silver token in award points? Let's say a 30 minute session is worth 5 points, right? So how many points would a restring cost is it would otherwise cost 1 silver?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 09:00:11 pm by Calypso »
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Offline Jaros

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2013, 01:47:35 am »
That said - Golems should be perzable.

Xer if you're fixing any scripts to allow perzing this would be a good place to start

Offline Jaros

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 06:57:15 am »
IMO everything without a script clash should be perzable except Orcrist, and if someone is willing to fix the scripts, everything except orcrist should be.

It doesn't matter much how much statless RP items cost as they are purely aesthetic, they could be given out for free.

RESTRING MACHINE WOO!  That'd be great.  I guess statted restrings (e.g. from a machine) could not have scripts attached and would not be reloadable except by buying a new one, so they would be inferior to perzes.  Maybe make the price proportional to the stats somehow? 1 bronze / equivalent in TP per stat would make restringing a good item comparable to reloading a perz.

I don't see a problem with duplicates if you're willing to pay for it and I've never seen the point of a 15 perz limit.

If you buy the perz you can put a script on it to stop someone else wearing it.  Not everyone wants that though.

Offline Calypso

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 11:18:48 am »
Quote
It doesn't matter much how much statless RP items cost as they are purely aesthetic, they could be given out for free.

It should cost something because it requires an actual person to stop what they are doing and focus on someone else's request. There is something about paying for a service/item that makes it feel more final and requires the buyer to put more thought into it. Otherwise, people may be encouraged to ask for constant changes. If someone wants to pay for all those changes, well fine- they can be silly if they want to with their own money. But a service should cost something from the once getting the service since it will cost time and effort from the one giving the service.



Separate thought: I would be willing to be available for RP sessions if people wanted to pay for RP items with one 30 minute RP sessions AND posting their OWN log on the RP forum. I can see this as a great way to bring RP back. If lots of different people are posting logs from sessions, it can encourage people to read through the logs and maybe do some RP of their own. As long as they are doing the RP session with someone, and they are posting it on the forum, that should qualify for payment of an RP item (statless or not)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 11:23:49 am by Calypso »
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Offline Mardo

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2013, 12:46:15 pm »
I saw "Restring Machine" somewhere.  This would be amazing.  Also I think lowering the points required for the things under RPREWARDS help file need to be lowered to encourage more RP.

Offline Kvetch

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Re: Perzes and Restrings and Stuff! Oh my!
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2013, 01:16:24 pm »
Fyi:  I believe if you look at the help file on rprewards you would find that the cost of a resting (using award points) is 100.  Yes, I was looking at that file yesterday trying to figure out other things.