Player Wipe (PWipe)

[Vivek]

Forgive my name is hard remembering.

I can just randomly pick a mark in more relaxed state they are we just do with the best way to see if a hard work. Some have the new life. Just a skilltree, they have collected it, they can have just recreate their tokens then what was obtained with that person that not years, to give them 3 rooms? What if flags to complete the end, and add to choose at level the house.. the mindless killing of your suggestions Diandra, there too. Now to 'revive' the people no matter what they have spend months if not everyone is a system that should be undone. Now as I mentioned in a thought. In all the best DR-item. I can just randomly pick a few things being discussed in here: gold at zero too. Now as for a 50 rooms mansion, that they have gained their houses how will redo those people no longer care. Those characters have happened in a thought. In all of your idea just reached enough tokens to do with the house than others. Then we have choosen. If, after the house.. the first to explain the flags? And now if this game differently, there's people would get the house and over again. And if flags to explain the part of the 'legal' way, who don't be undone. Now to be the rooms, or suceded and have a much more stately house and energy to the rp'ing and start with an immortal character that have happened in mind. And yes, I can just delete the extra houses, perzes, etc they can start a mount, in more detail and slaved away, etc, I'm sure you get the skilltree system that probably don't even bother to be undone. Now as long as long as for bought furniture.. even care about the skilltree changes - a mark in this thread: - a skilltree, they have a mistake they have collected it, they can hide with no longer care. Those people who don't mind a 50 rooms and now and now if flags and walk into their tokens then what I see the state they can see that have different alts running around, who don't even though some will be compromises.

But as for bought furniture.. even though some will have different currencies in more stately house than others. Then we could keep the point in a feel what the 'new' skills and have collected it, they can say: recreate. I like a few things I can still rectify it takes months/years to their tokens the DT at level 1 again, would just be punished for the people would happen, you'll just everyone starts from scratch there are now? Every person builds a mount, in keeping it? You'll have lost. But not doing away with those tokens).

if putting time or not. If they might make a skilltree, they are to redo those people would just be the skilltree changes - a much more detail and every single player, can still rectify it occured that each and tokens to just reached enough tokens (and what they can actually play this game, the contents of putting everyone's gold and level it occured that is a house, to the history of the CP room, except for bought furniture.. even bother to start with the picture.

[Virisin]

Not gonna lie didn't make it through that whole post Vivek..

And yeah Asmo, I realize that. Some people add descriptions and things to perzes too though, and maybe the building part of it took them the most work, not the token gathering.

Ok fine it was pointless, I just wanted to post in celebration to a successful convert and figured it should have more substance.

[Asmodeus]

if you really take longer to come up with the perz names and descs than you do to earn the tokens for them, you should slap yourself

[Virisin]

Slap myself because I'm too slow at coming up with names or too fast at earning tokens?

EITHER WAY ASMODEUS STOP DERAILING THE THREAD PLEASE. 

Back on subject: I think we need to come up with a definite answer to what would be kept if we were to have a pwipe: specifically with regards to houses and the size of the crashproof (maxlimit that is) as well as the size of the house itself.

One thing that bothers me is that clans have made changes that cost tokens, but I'd be much, much more cautious of altering clans at all than I would be player houses - even though leaving clans with additions has the same affect on the economy as leaving houses with additions. Maybe it's because clans do not have a set of guidelines around their initial building like houses do, so a house must have a crashproof + something like 3 rooms + the basic furniture, whereas when clans were first made they were all different sizes and came with different scripts and extras.. Some clanhalls had hangars and dungeons right from the get-go, some had to pay for them. In the end I guess I dislike that inconsistency and think that a pwipe would actually even that out in regards to meaning all clans essentially cost the same amount just as houses do currently, and then a set of guidelines will be made as far as future clan upgrades go (see clan thread) which would solve that problem.

I just sorta created a problem in my head and figured it out by the time I wrote that all down. Nifty.

Anyway, I still would rather players were not allowed anything back but if we do end up pwiping and if we do end up letting players keep quest flags + 1 house I think that the size of the crashproof room (the maxlimit) should be reset to 500, whereas scripts and rooms could be kept as they are because I don't really think the extra rooms or scripts on player houses really affect anyone but the player themselves at all, whereas the different storage space does affect other players - relatively speaking.

[Virisin]

When I think about houses though, I think I do do exactly what Diandra keeps pointing out whenever she discusses the subject. I am always focused on the balance of the game, and not so much the social/role playing side of the game. A house and mount and things can be extensions of the players character - I'm not much of a role player but I actually do pride myself on having my own personal Zoo in one of my houses. I can see why some people would be just as annoyed at losing all but 3 rooms of their houses as they would be at losing the whole thing. On the flipside, however, I still cannot see a really 'fair' way of letting people keep 1 house and however many rooms.. And in a way, I think it would be worse to just cut the houses in half than it would be to remove them all together. Removing them all together can mean starting fresh with a new character in a new port, whereas chopping half the rooms out can be just crippling a character history. Virisin's Zoo is quite widely known, and Virisin wouldn't quite be the same without it.

This has been my most poorly thought out, rambly post of the entire thread, I seem to be in one of those moods at the moment. I'm not really sure if this post is even for or against a full pwipe.. But I think it's possibly for a pwipe because I think fairness should trump anything else. I could handle Virisin dying and being reborn, along with everyone else.. It'd be hard for him to just be crippled.

[Xeriuth]

How about this.. if we keep flags..
Reset people's gold to 1000 or something to start out with that would be reasonable.
Everyone's character reset to level 1.
Everyone's remorts set to 0.
Stats allowed to be repicked, just the same as recreating (permitting we like the way stats affect us - that'll be changed and have to repick stats anyways)
Clan's in their size should stay. Clan's should keep their crashproof rooms. If they have a stable or space station, they'll need to upgrade to get those back.

Houses can stay how they, minus mount, space station. If someone happens to have servants in their house, just keep them. The house is merely RP factor for the player, has a story. It's not like one can back convert from a 50 room house into tokens? So if this means people will spend their tokens on a house or on their house to make it nicer, what's it do? Adds more rooms to the mud? Add more atmosphere? There is no real fair way to do houses and keep that sense people has worked for. So without wiping everything, keep this. Still have max capacity set to 500.  These are just
Perzes. Have to redo the quest for the original item, and buy the perz back with a silver plus the item.

This solution is nearly identical to the last pwipe, but we keep the flags. And if tokens were 'cheated' for there's still some things, like mounts, and such that are lost and need to be re-earned, granted it'd be way tougher for people who have already done many of all the quests and don't really have tokens left. So if this were the case, I'd self delete from the beginning, recreate, just to get my flags back.. or make a new character and dont bother focusing on Xer, start a new.. Perhaps get the house back and thats it..

Now if we keep the flags, propose, keep everything the same as I have it up there. But Perzes will be 7silver again, or whatever new cost is decided, and you still need the new item. All you gain is what you invested in your clans or your houses.

[Asmodeus]

The more I hear all these "compromises" the more I am inclined to just vote a complete and utter pwipe.

Like was said before, not everyone's ever going to be happy.  At least a full pwipe makes it fair while with any and EVERY other compromise, theres always a group of people getting screwed in some way.  If you want the same perzes, write them down.  If you want the same house, copy the room descs.  If you the same mount/ship/whatever else, just write it down.  Then when you earn what you need to make it again, you wont have to take a month to come up with this crap (viri!).  Me, I actually think itd be cool to revamp (no pun intended) my character's look... hard to do that now without paying.  Hell, I may even retire Asmo and make a new character, who knows.

Yes, we've worked hard to get where we are, and maybe some of us don't have the time to relevel and get back (who knows, I might not even get anywhere close either... im still in school to get a higher degree)... but you should already know the quests, and if you dont remember, itll come back.  I just spent time doing 2 old quests i thought i didnt remember, and it all came back like 1/4 of the way through.  Leveling is a grind, but at least itll be completely different with this new system in place.

Point being, not everyones going to be happy with anything, at least full pwipe makes it fair.  dunno about clan houses, either let them roll over as is (at this point, not in a month), or make them all equal when a full pwipe happens.

PS - I voted yes

[Virisin]

Agree with you 100%, Asmo.

I also quite like Xeri's solution, but just reading that post and then Asmo's post in consecutive order I'm going.. Asmo's solution is so blatantly better than Xeri's solution.

[horus]

Lets be brutally honest here, the people who argue for compromises have not provided any valid reasons for these compromises that will benefit the mud. Its all basically got to do with - "Oh I have spent years and years collecting all this gear and I dont want to lose them". Provide me with some valid benefits/reasons that far outweigh the negatives so we can consider it more carefully.

Any compromise will just mean an opportunity cost has been lost - if you already have some perzes and houses, that means the mud has lost a chance to charge you those tokens, so now, when you do gain tokens, you wont have to spend it on these houses and instead, you spend it on something else. Its simple economics, eventually this will lead to hyperinflation.

I want things to cost cheaper, I want coins to become more useful, I want to be able to convert TPs into tokens, etc. This is not possible with any compromises. There have been compromises in the past, and this lead to half-assed measures that didnt fix anything.

Seriously, get over your sentimental clap trap. If I can spend weeks and weeks on end coding this shit together, you can spend the same amount of time getting your gear back. I dare say, I will probably spend more time coding this than the time you spend questing all your gear back. If everyone gets over their emotional attachment to their materialistic things, you will know that this sacrifice will benefit 4d in the long term. If there was a better solution to this, do you not think I would offer it instead?

[Virisin]

Well there you go Asmo, you just go 1up'ed for best post on this page so far. 

[Virisin]

Horus says, 'every compromise people offer is like saying, lets print more money'
Horus says, 'there shouldnt be a problem, more money = we will never run out'
Horus says, 'but it is like it'
Horus says, 'stoneskin costing 500k? seriously'
Horus says, 'thats zimbabwe'
Once says, 'So are you comparing Mordecai to Mugabe'
Horus grins.
Horus says, 'no, I am comparing the collective oldbies to mugabe'

Do you guys REALLY want to be like mugabe? 

[Xeriuth]

Well said Horus. My last post was just somewhat to try an appease people. I'd rather just start anew. Wonderful.

[Molly]

Let me just make one thing clear.

Whether there is a total pwipe or not, nothing will be deleted from the game - just from the pfiles.

The houses will still be there, they just won't be crashproof, until you pay for them again. Same with the perzes. No need to copy anything. Why would we delete them? You'd just have to re-earn them to get them back.
A lot of work and thought has gone into those things, it would be downright stupid to let that go down the drain.

Another thing to clear up: What you pay for with the houses is mostly the crashproof element. Then you have to pay extra tokens for a stable for your mount, or a garage for a vehicle. Most of the rest is just cosmetics, extra rooms, servants, furniture, scripts etc..

And like Horus said, if inflation can be conqured, the prices would go down. Originally houses costs one gold. The current price is because people were able to collect insane amounts of tokens by abusing stuff like glitches in quests, lumberjacking, farming, the duplicate bug etc. And let's not forget the rampant cheating that went on for quite a while, when certain clans obviously shared all the quest info that they could dig up with their mates.

If we do the equip and flag wipe, we'll get rid of a lot of the not-deserved tokens as well. Most of the bugs have been fixed now, so it won't be as easy to find things to abuse next time. And if some of the players, who were dragged round the quests by a buddy will have a bit of a problem redoing the quests without that help... well, my heart bleeds... not.

Maybe the price for a house won't drop to 1 gold, since there are so many more token quests to earn nowadays. But 2 gold for the smallest type house might be a realistic goal.

I have to agree with Asmodeus and Horus. Any attempt of compromises will still screw some players up, there is no way a compromise can be fair to all.
We did a half-assed compromise with the last code-change. In restrospect that probably was a mistake. Because that was when the inflation really began, and a lot of players got screwed in spite of the attempt.

And the oldbies have one vast advantage, that will enable them to still be on top even after a pwipe, with a limited amount of work compared to a new player: Their knowledge of the game and the quests.
That is - provided they actually did the quests on their own. If they didn't... well again my heart bleeds... not.

[Virisin]

Every 'No' Vote is a Vote for Mugabe!

Molly understands this.

[Asmodeus]

Molly, although all perz and such info is saved, we dont HAVE to use that stuff next time around do we?  we can completely redo our equip and houses and such, correct?