Author Topic: Revamping artifact system  (Read 40099 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Loria

  • Guest
Revamping artifact system
« on: September 07, 2011, 10:57:29 am »
Kvetch and I were discussing an idea for helping newbies have a better chance at finding artifacts. As a side benefit, it might make things more fun for the oldbies too.

The problem with artifacts as I see it is that the only person who is notified that an arti has crumbled is the person who had it in the first place. And since it loads at the same place each time, that person could just go back to where it loads and wait for it. Meanwhile, newbies have no idea that the artis even exist, let alone know where they are loaded. So the idea went something like this:

What if we had a board that listed all the artifacts in the game, whether available or not, so that newbies know what to look for? We talked about having a list that showed which artifacts were available but quickly ditched the idea since it would make it too easy to use locate and find it quickly. So What if we had a separate list that showed how many artis were available for grabs at any given moment? It would be scripted/coded to load automatically. All the players would see is the number available, but not which ones.

But that still doesn't address the issue that newbies have no idea where to look for it. Listing its whereabouts on the board would cause more problems than it would fix, so What if the artis loaded in random places each time so that newbies and oldbies had the same chances at finding it?

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

Coders/Scriptors: Kvetch mentioned that a problem in coding this list would be that it would only update upon reboot, so the list would not be up to date. What are some ways around this? How could we get the list to be up to date as per that moment?

« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 11:31:38 am by Loria »

Offline Once

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • View Profile
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 02:11:25 pm »
Why not just have it announce to the world? That's a better way to do it anyway.

Offline Jaros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 05:57:03 pm »
 I quite like this.  One way or another a race for each new arti when it loads would be fun :D

Offline Virisin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 08:50:31 pm »
Arti's are definitely something I'd like to see revamped a bit, and I've discussed it quite a bit with Molly in the past. We focused more on making artifacts actually sought after again though and doing some major balancing, rather than what could be done to make them more accessible.

I think one reason they are kinda forgotten these days is because a lot of them were nerfed and now they're really not much better than any other equipment, Molly and I came up with quite a few things that could potentially change so I'll go through some of it:

Some basic artifact guidelines:

•   Artifacts should have 8 points allocated to them in total with no more than 5 points on any one stat
•   Artifacts should have a 1 percent chance to load
•   Artifacts should NOT be timered, and should have NO maxloads
•   Players should not be able to wear more than 3 artifacts at once
•   Artifacts should be found on strong mobs in relatively far-away places
•   Artifacts should not be found on non-unique mobs
•   Artifacts should be !locate
•   Zones should have a maximum of 2 artifacts

Any more potential guidelines I would like to hear about.

Artifacts should be relocated, currently every oldbie knows pretty much where to get every artifact, and every newbie has no idea. Add to this the fact that oldbies have all heard the hints from imms every so often and know that the vast majority of artifacts are in old zones. The actual counts are really sad to look at, and are as follows. I hope no one minds if I post this:

Zone Artifact Counts:

Odyssey – 1, Labyrinth – 2, Green Fenn – 1, Queltoria – 1, Down Under – 1, Sherwood – 1, East Mediteranean – 1, Cyclades – 2, Quixotica – 1, Future Spaceport – 1, Fenizia – 1, Dry Gulch – 1, Lostlands – 1, Temple of the Damned – 1, Odessin – 4, Rip in Time – 3, Midlands – 5, Camelot – 1, Starwars – 5, Dun-Shivaar – 2, Necromunda – 1, Convent – 1, Troll Forest – 3, Elven Forest – 1, Outer Space – 1, Mirkheim – 1, Dragon Island – 1

I already have a list of artifacts that includes which have ambiguous enough names that they could be relocated, which ones have names specific enough that they'd have to be made non-artifact, and where some strong, unique, well-hidden mobs are that could become artifact mobs, any immortal can feel free to ask me for this list if it would help them doing anything with artifacts.

I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of being able to just go check a board and immediately see if an artifact is in the game or not.. That would defeat the purpose of going to find out for yourself, also if you could see an artifact was in the game, you could just go around looking (better as a Thief with peek) at mobs you think might have the artifact and not even bothering to kill them if the artifact was in the game but clearly wasn't on the mob.

I am very keen to hear any other ideas on how to revamp the artifact system though, I think major things to focus on should be making sure artifacts are actually better than other equipment and untimered, so people WANT them. Making it so players can only wear 3 at once, so if a player has lots, there is no reason they shouldn't sell them to someone else, and making them very rare as well as relocating their positions.

The hunt for new artifacts would be quite a challenge I feel for some of us oldbies that don't get enjoyment anymore out of simply killing all the mobs we already know hold artifacts until we can pop one.

Mmmmmm  :-*



Offline Kvetch

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 09:26:48 pm »
Coders/Scriptors: Kvetch mentioned that a problem in coding this list would be that it would only update upon reboot, so the list would not be up to date. What are some ways around this? How could we get the list to be up to date as per that moment?
Actually, that wasn't a problem I saw, that was an advantage.  I know it could be scripted to update every 13 seconds, I just thought it would be better to update every 15 minutes to 2 hours - depending on how long it takes for the zone the board is in to reboot.  This would leave a chance of the list being wrong... say it updates saying that 7 artifacts are in the game, people claim 3 of them and 1 more loads, when it resets it would say that there are 5 artifacts in the game.  This would keep people guessing more than just saying exactly how many are in the game.  Another thought was to let it say there are about 7 in the game when there is a random chance of the number being off one way or the other by up to 2 - a random chance easily scripted in.  So if the board says seven, there could be 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 in the game.  I do think that the board should not say there are 0 when there is at least one in the game.

Offline Jaros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2011, 12:45:58 am »
What about just one notification to the world that: "An artifact has loaded."  Or something to that effect, keep it vague, along with a thorough rethink of stats and locations.

Offline Virisin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 03:10:09 am »
Ah I see what you meant now Loria/Kvetch. Initially I thought you meant a board listing the artifacts with some kind of LOADED/NOT_LOADED sign next to each one - which is an idea I don't like. But if it's just something like, '3 artifacts loaded' or a message to the world saying 'An artifact has loaded' I wouldn't be too worried. I'm kinda meh on the idea though surely there are better ways to make artifacts more interesting than a weird locator device on each one to make it easier to know when to search for them.

Offline Molly

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 691
    • View Profile
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 04:03:22 pm »
I'm getting a bit muddle-headed, probably because it's late, or maybe just because my memory is like a sieve...

So, now the objects with timers actually go poof when they should.
But I forgot: Did we decide to remove the timers on all artifacts?

(It's a relatively quick operation, but I want to be sure before I do it).

Offline Jaros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2011, 04:52:34 pm »
Well Xeriuth did a poll and there was pretty much a consensus in favour of removing arti timers.  So I would say yes.

Offline Diandra

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2011, 12:46:23 am »
If you remove the timers of the Artifacts, how can other players gain a chance on getting one, seeing there's a max on how many can be ingame and they don't load every time. Last time I checked not everyone signs up for PK and if you remove the timers of arti's in my opinion new players will even get a lesser chance of ever finding the location of arti's if they no longer disappear. Or am I missing something here?

As for the poll: How many new players actually answered that one?  ::)

Offline horus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2011, 01:33:14 am »
There is no point in max_loading any item, and there is no point in putting a timer on artifacts. Do away with both and there is absolutely no reason for people to hoard them. One might put a couple away as spares in case of DTs, but guess what? Even if they hoard them, they do absolutely no harm to other people's enjoyment of the game.

Offline Jaros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2011, 07:37:39 am »
^^ word to that. what are we getting out of a) the timers and b) the maxloads.

there is barely enough of a playerbase to warrant the number of arti's let alone their timers + maxloads.

It would take me probably a couple of months to maxload ANYTHING let alone a quality artifact, and I'm pretty good at that kind of thing.

Let's make them fun.  Right now they're not.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 07:55:19 am by Jaros »

Offline Diandra

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2011, 09:00:02 am »
So in essence all you want is to make them artifacts just like any normal object in game but just with some higher stats (well or should be). Ok... that is fun indeed.  ;)


Offline Jaros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2011, 09:11:59 am »
Hi Diandra.  Who are you again?

Next, answer me this:

How many new players know shit about artefacts?

How many new players have ever owned an artefact AS IT IS with timers etc?

How many new players have even killed a mob that might POSSIBLY load an artefact?

The answer to all three is effectively zero.

Artefacts are for players who've been here more than a month or two.  Last time I checked there were like 30k other rooms for players who haven't.

Offline Diandra

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Revamping artifact system
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2011, 09:27:50 am »
Isn't that exactly what Kvetch tried to adress? Inform new players (yes even those who have only played for two months) somehow about arti's.

But seeing you want to see them downgraded to normal eq with some higher stats I wouldn't name them arti's anymore.

Just my two cents.