Player Wipe (PWipe)

[Asmodeus]

Asmo: You are such an indecisive fuck, (still love you). I know you're not one of the ones that abused anything, as far as tokens go, no one really did. Lumberjacking was a legitimate way of gaining tokens for a while and you can't really call people taking advantage of the way things work when they're not bugged at all 'abuse', but the fact remains that a lot of houses were gained that way and they took away from the value my own house had. Everyone seems to have a house these days, you're the odd one out if you don't have one, it's not special anymore. I honestly believe that you're remembering how hard it is to get tokens and a house the first time round, and not thinking about how easy it will be a second time around.

Well let me clarify that 1: If i earned any tokens lumberjacking at all, it was the minimum amount (I dont even remember ever cutting down trees), and 2: I never "took advantage" of these methods as you're saying so many did.  If I did, I'd have the number of tokens Xeriuth has (not saying he "took advantage" of anything, but he does have a lot of tokens, and thats the only point im trying to make!)

Now, just because everyone else got a house doesn't make me feel my house's value dropped.  I was/am just happy i have a place to store things without worry, why should I feel upset that everyone and their mother has a house?  How does that affect me?  It doesn't, is the answer.

And finally, you target the wrong part of my argument.  Of course itll be easier the second/third/fourth/fifth/etc time around, they're the same quests you've already done (you should be worried if it gets harder!).  Its not about it being easy, its about it being boring.  Questing should be new, fun, challenging, and exciting, especially if you have to earn back EVERYTHING (equipment, tokens, etc) you earned from the beginning. But its not, its just repeating the things you've done, going through the motions.  If people liked doing quests they've already done when they didnt have to get their equipment back, you wouldn't see people at recall all the time, they'd be out repeating their favorite quests on some sort of regular basis.  But last time I checked, that doesn't happen.

[Virisin]

A PWipe might mean you get your clan back Nat, depending on what would happen with clans but a vote seems like a likely option. 

And I for one do happen to have at least 10 or so spare sets of equip Asmo, I love repeating all those quests. 

I'll reply properly later, I'm a little bored of writing long posts atm. I think I'm coming up with a reasonably good solution though that should satisfy all of us.

[Asmodeus]

And I for one do happen to have at least 10 or so spare sets of equip Asmo, I love repeating all those quests. 

Just because YOU like doing quests almost solely for the end result doesn't mean the process isn't just as important as the reward for other people

[Natalya B.]

Whilst I'd like to be back in Vampires as I did create this character specifically to BE a vamp (leader or not isn't the point, I was more than happy to be retired because I went inactive), that's not, nor should it be, a motivation for a pwipe.

I'm saying pretty much the same stuff Asmo and Kit and others have said, I'm just chiming in.

Love all the new change ideas, the skill trees, etc, but please don't waste our time removing absolutely everything we've built up over the years -.-' Levelling I can do. But having to do everything all over again? I guess it comes down to personal opinnion. Like asmo said, it's the same for me - it'd just be going through the damn motions. I wanna do new different stuff, the thought of having to re-get everything I already very contently have, makes me want to shoot myself in the foot =p

[Natalya B.]

Ha! =p

Devram says, 'pwipes is a really awful solution'

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Virisin asks, 'did I get one?'

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Virisin clambers to his feet.

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Virisin walks east.

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Devram says, 'laziest solution too'

3250H 31547M 19397V (100) 317,034,364TNL 0D>agree dev

You agree with everything that Devram suggests.

3250H 31547M 19397V (100) 317,034,364TNL 0D>'thats what im trying to say =/

Virisin says, 'holy shit Alayna got a boba'

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You say, 'thats what I'm trying to say =/'

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Virisin says, 'that makes me not want mine anymore'

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Tocharaeh says, '- I think pwipes can be avoided -'

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Virisin says, 'let's pwipe boba's woohoo'

3250H 31547M 19397V (100) 317,034,364TNL 0D>agree toc

You agree with everything that Tocharaeh suggests.

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Tocharaeh says, '- alayna got it because I was inactive. Sorry -'

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Devram says, 'if you going to pwipe you might as well just start a new mud'

3250H 31547M 19397V (100) 317,034,364TNL 0D>agree dev

You agree with everything that Devram suggests.

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Virisin says, 'You guys are all assholes and I hate you all'

................



Tocharaeh says, '- based upon horus' intended improvements...pwipe shouldn't be necessary at all now tat I am thinking about it. -'

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Devram says, 'but pwiping and "upgrading" the code is the worst possible solution'

[horus]

I think inflation is a big issue and its impact on the game is insiduous. Because of the ease of which tokens were gained initially, future players had to suffer from doing much more work to gain the same result. Hence, houses now require redoing the same quests hundreds of times before you can purchase one.

The end result of this is grinding out quests. So you have xp grinding and token grinding.

If we can remove the inflation problem, perhaps then, a simpler measure of the effects of inflation can be seen with the cost of housing dropping to something more like 1 gold or maybe an equivalent token amount of completing 10 difficult quests, or whatever arbitrary cost we can come up with.

In the end, I believe the idea of 4d is that you can enjoy the huge variety of areas on offer, and it is highly encouraged you do so. Hence the reason why, rightly or wrongly, trainers were introduced. However, if we made houses cheaper, and other things cheaper, and we make all quests once only, suddenly everyone will be trying to do quests in every single zone so they can earn enough tokens. And although this may feel like you are forced to go to different areas, the pain is eased somewhat when you can purchase alot MORE things than you could before, spending less time to achieve it.

A simple analogy to this problem is this - if we suddenly take away the recall spell and all recall items, suddenly recall scrolls become extremely valuable, but because we do have these things, recall scrolls arent as valued.

[Asmodeus]

Here's an idea I think is better than whatever Virisin is suggesting thus far... it seemed to get some positive feedback...

I was thinking perhaps you have one of two options.

1: Get everything completely wiped : tokens, gold, house, etc... start completely over with your own character.

2: Keep your stuff and get put to some equivalent of what you are in the new system (ill let that conversion stay up to you guys), HOWEVER you get a zone restriction to recall, clan, gladiator arena (and maybe some basic zones so you're not a complete shut-in) until a certain number of people catch up to oldbies are, or as Toch suggested for a certain amount of time (6 months).

This way oldbies can keep all their stuff and be relatively the same in the new system, and new players have opportunities to grow and catch up, not to mention oldbies can also create a new character and enjoy coming up through the new system while keeping all their stuff.


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You say, 'maybe you have the option of being completely wiped, or getting some equivelant of where you are, and those who want to stay, are forced to stay in clan hall/recall and not able to go out until people catch up'

Devram says, 'now that would be difficult'

Natalya says, 'and silly, lol'
Devram says, 'not impossible but difficult'

Devram says, 'its an interesting idea actually'

You say, 'just trying to suggest any balance I can come up with'

Xeriuth says, 'thats an idea asmo'

Natalya states, 'i just want to log in and have fun, not have to redo everything again. Sick to death of it.'

Devram says, 'zone restrict older characters for 6 months to let noobs catch up'

You nod.

Tocharaeh says, '- I'd be down -'

Devram shrugs helplessly.

Xeriuth says, 'make new chars to enjoy the new system'

Tocharaeh says, '- cause I don't want to lose anything, just seems crazy after all my work. -'

Natalya says, 'ok but zone restrict the oldbies in the same zone so we can PK eachother =p'

Tocharaeh snickers softly.

Xeriuth says, 'I don't really want to lose all my stuff, I have a damn lot'

Devram says, 'it would be a way to keep the characters'

You nod.

Tocharaeh says, '- send all oldbies to the gladiator arena -'

Natalya exclaims, 'yes!'

Tocharaeh says, '- for 6mos -'

Sarias gossips, 'Omg.. someone actually has 20billion gold? I'm going to die.'

Xeriuth says, 'but I think it's the most fair to new players and everyone who has less than me'

You chuckle politely.

Natalya exclaims, 'yes yes yes!'

Natalya says, 'I love that idea'

Natalya says, 'that way we can start alts too if we wanna start from scratch'

Natalya says, 'and then we can still log in and have fun on our mains'

Natalya exclaims, 'yes!'

Xeriuth gossips, ''
Devram says, 'thats a really good solution'
Tocharaeh says, '- no losses, and nothing but gains. -'

Natalya exclaims, 'yes yes yes!'

Natalya makes a whole lot of noisy cheering for you!

Tocharaeh jumps in the air and gives you slamming highfive. WOOT!

Tocharaeh jumps in the air and gives a slamming highfive to Natalya. WOOT!

Tocharaeh says, '- genius -'

Natalya jumps in the air and gives a slamming highfive to Tocharaeh. WOOT!
Devram says, '6 months quarantine'

Natalya says, 'gogogo, post post post'

Asmodeus's Prompt:-13350@100100100@100[Align:29]<Warm@Day|Inside>[75,409,006]
Natalya says, '6 months is a bit long I think lol'

Xeriuth gossips, 'cough'

Devram says, 'naww'

Tocharaeh says, '- so are we all agreed that that is the preferable measure to take? -'

Natalya says, 'it doesnt take that long to get some of the gears we have lol'

Tocharaeh says, '- 6mos is perfect -'

Sarias gossips, 'Pfft... that's cause you trained before they hiked up all the dang prices'

Devram says, 'its the LEAST bad solution available'

Natalya says, 'how is 6 months perfect? it doesnt take that long to get these gears and whatnot'

Xeriuth says, 'how do you fix inflation'

Natalya says, 'id say more like 2-3 months =o'

Devram says, 'well tbh you would need to do a more complex economy to avoid inflation'

Natalya agrees with everything that Devram suggests.
Tocharaeh says, '- 6mos doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm a recall junkie I'm as old as these dusty floorboards -'

Natalya says, 'well 6 months bothers me. I actually want to play again lol'

Devram says, 'ask once'

Devram says, 'his mud has a fairly ok ish economy'

Natalya says, 'but whatever I'm just content I don't lose everything. Ill happily start an alt and stuff with the new system, as long as I don't lose shit, I'm good'

Tocharaeh says, '- I am happy just playing on Tochie in the arena for 6mos -'

Natalya says, 'Ill freakin make a zone specifically for it'

Tocharaeh says, '- and I'll remake my awesome alt of perfect jesterness -'

Natalya says, 'arena sections, heals, and chillout rooms =p'

Kvetch studies the board.

Tocharaeh says, '- asmo, go post it and include our feedback. -'

Tocharaeh nods vigorously.

Natalya says, 'man thats such a totally brilliant idea'

Devram says, 'crafting and durability is needed for a proper game economy'

[Natalya B.]

Totally down with this! Totttally! I love it!

Lock us away for 3-6 months in an arena-type zone with some cool chillaxy rooms, let other people catch up and get awesome so we oldies dont have a totally unfair advantage, get rid of all our tokens and gold (hey, we can always make alts and earn that shizzle back, which Im totally down for because it'll be a new system that I'm going to want to fiddle with along the way), and shebam! Compromise!

The only thing I'm unsure of is removing the house. On one hand, I'm kind of agreeing with that. On the other... I have a LOT of stuff I'd like to keep, and I cant keep it all on me. Maybe we could put the houses into lock-down, and the only way we get it back is by raising the tokens once again to buy access to the house back? Perhaps at a slightly lower cost maybe? *shrug*

I so seriously hope this idea gets put through. I don't want a pwipe, but that's because I don't want to lose everything I've gotten time and time again after various pwipes and lots of time and effort. This seems like an awesome compromise. Plus, I strangely don't even want to lose my character the way it is. I'm totally down for making a new character, with a new RP, and having fun with the system, and still being able to log my main in and PVPing with other people's mains in a "lock down arena".

* Edit the only thing Im unsure of, which Anubis pointed out, is who gets chosen to be "stored" away in this zone thing, and who doesn't. To me, I think it's more of an oldies thing, the people that actually do have a lot to lose. Not the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th remort people with only one or two quest items, I'm talking the people with various remorts, with perzs, with antiques, with unique items, awards, prizes, a lot of loss...

Maybe some people could be given the choice as well. If ya want to pwipe your toon, go for it, and start back afresh with your main. If not, just lock it away so you dont lose the years you've effectively spent in the game, and whether or not you bother to make an alt is up to you.

Possibly still some fairness issues to be worked out here, not sure...

*bounce bounce bounce*

[Natalya B.]

Edit about the coins/tokens thing with the proposed "lock down":


You say, 'ok ill try again'

Asmodeus snickers softly.

You ask, 'Say we put our mains in lockdown right?'

Asmodeus nods.

You say, 'Then we start alts, level up, get gears, money, tokens'

Asmodeus says, 'that means they cant give gold or tokens to your alt'

You say, 'the lock down ends'

You say, 'we get our mains back'

Asmodeus nods.

You say, 'and by the time we've spent making alts, whilst everyone else has made new toons'

You say, 'we've got more than double the money and tokens they have'

Asmodeus says, 'yes, but'

Asmodeus says, 'i don't plan on sharing that between each character'

Asmodeus says, 'if I get that all with my new one, it stays with my new one'

Asmodeus says, 'i don't want asmo to go broke just because I want to play on a new character'

Devram says, 'tbh tokens and stuff should be personal and non tradable'

Asmodeus says, 'they're two different characters'

You say, 'true, but other people will share that around'

Asmodeus says, 'then put a fix on that'

You state, 'I know I probably would, to be honest. I've done it before.'

Asmodeus says, 'but don't make the person whos agreeing to go in lockdown to keep all his stuff loose his wealth'

Asmodeus says, 'defeats part of the purpose'

You say, '*copies and pastes* you're right, but then we do need to try find a way to stop the money/token sharing I think'

Asmodeus says, 'im not done playing/exploring with asmo by any means'

[Virisin]

Ok here's my solution:

PWipe you have two options:
1. lose everything and start from scratch. (woohoo this is awesome)
2. lose levels and exp and equipment etc, but keep 1 house 1 set of perzes and all quest flags. All you have to redo is the quests for your one set of equipment.

[Natalya B.]

*Sides with Asmo's idea*

[Asmodeus]

By the way, I just want to clarify... everything I've been talking about has been if we go with some in-between stage from complete pwipe to where we are now.  If thats the case, i still think my idea is best.  As can probably be taken from my posts, it is my preferred choice.

However, i dont mind a full pwipe as long as all money, gold, houses, mounts, equipment, etc etc etc goes with it.  Its not my favorite option, but if everyone is back at the beginning, i guess its not THAT bad.

Oh, and i require the following to occur...
Xeriuth is restricted from hoarding anything... thats the only reason he wants a pwipe!

[Xeriuth]

Deal, I will not hoard everything.

[Kiyoshi Katsuro]

This wouldn't make me leave or come back. I come and go often, as I'm sure I will again. The difference is I chose to come back and play before mention of the pwipe, so it won't matter to me either way. Besides I just wipe for the hell of it anyways.

Fun as always,
-Kiyo-

[Natalya B.]

As previously mentioned in game, a pwipe is going to see me not bothering to come back at all. And also as previously mentioned in game (by others not by myself), I'm not the only one.

heh.