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Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Balancing classes
« on: February 08, 2016, 12:15:15 am »
This is something I've put a lot of thought into and something I've really wanted to target over the past year. I had planned on doing some testing with gladiators to see how my idea below would pan out. I haven't quite finished the initial design I have in mind to put forward in real testing. But basically what I have in mind is below and the reason for wanting to do so.
Our whole spell/skill system is a very dull system. Most are based off the same idea of the weapon damage and giving modifiers for certain conditions. Which is fine for some, but what system lacks is any additional affects added behind the skills/spells, and getting away from having to use a same skill/spell constantly over and over. Not all skills/spells shouldn't be spammable but I think making the system more dynamic will give the better ability to properly balance classes plus make all classes more enjoyable and not feel very generic.
Give classes the ability to have powerful opening attacks and/or finishers, mixed in with the ability to stun + damage, do negative affects + damage, combine with having a few good spells/skills that are spamable to fill in the gaps of spells that you are currently waiting for to come off of cool down.
A lot of Mmorpgs that have a rotation or combo of skills/spells they use in game while fighting, They use one spell/skill it goes on cool down they move onto another and the process rinse and repeats, until they are forced to go off combo to remove debuffs or heal etc. And while their best skills/spells are on cool down they use lower damage repeatable spells/skills to fill in those gaps. These spells/skills that are on cool down usually have high end damage, or give a player a positive affect or give the player/mob being attacked a debuff.
So if we make the spell/skill system more dynamic I have better feelings that we can make more classes enjoyable, along with balancing them.
Right now people target Gypsy and Priest the most due to mainly these spells/skills that I feel are currently overpowered.
Mana Shield
Thorn Shield
Heal
Midas Touch
Magic Bubble
You take away these and then Gypsy and Priest would basically be just like the rest of the classes. There is really no big difference from one caster class to the next and same for melee. Not saying they need to be taken away, but they need changed, some need the whole idea changed behind them. Ive been working on a something that over the next week I will be posting something that will break down each class into how they should be represented in the mud and what can we do to represent that idea in the mud. And if we moved forward with a better dynamic spell/skll system, we can get away from classes being so generic, get away from pvm being a mindless task of spamming a skill/spell.
Now PvP does closely relate to this, but there are other aspects of PVP that need to be taken into account. Looting/ Damage/ Tier Difference/ Fleeing from fights, just a few off the top of my list I have in word pad.
Mobs should also be taken into account here as well. Mobs are very generic here as well. A mobs hardness shouldn't just mostly be defined by its speed from its tier and its dice. You bring in a better dynamic spell/skill system you can bring in more classes of mobs that can use these spells/skills without the use of having it to be scripted, which then you could get away from mobs having retarded attacks per tick, and make the combat better and less predictable. The mob side of this i believe shouldnt be a primary focus until the rest is done.
We shouldn't just start adding in generic skills/spells to buff up other classes, it should be done correctly, with a lot of initial design then testing. Get away from the generic feeling. Then on top of adding in a dynamic spell/skill system you give the player different ways to build the class.
It would be much more fun to see a priest have multiple ways to block or reduce damage while beaing able to chip away at its opponent, or be able to go another route where they could do a lot of damage with dark magic, but have a lot fewer healing spells or ways to block reduce damage.
Thieves could have powerful openers and finisher spells as an assassin or they could go another route where they rely on their quickness and dexterity in fights.
I would give classes at least two different paths they could take to build their class. If you like the idea, I don't believe implanting a better spell/skill system would be a huge issue as far as coding. It doesn't require the removal of our current combat system. I feel like this alone could greatly improve our combat system, without having to tear it down and start from scratch.
If you want to see what I have for breaking down the classes Roland send me an email and Ill send it to you first, Id like to see your thoughts in it before posting it. I don't think its the easiest route to go, but I think its one of the better routes to go. I think we could do a lot with just spells/skills to change combat that wouldn't require a complete rewrite from the ground up. I could be wrong and it might not be that easy. Any way you look at it, if you want to get rid of the generic feeling then I think this is the best place to start. It may turn out to be more complex then our current combat code could handle, But I think we could work with what we have and prevail.
This system would even be able to favor multi-classing.
To basically sum it up, Make each class its own class, get away from generic skills/spells. Bring in a rotation type skill/spell system. Let classes be able to branch different ways. Focus more on a affect/debuff skills/spells.
It would require real testing, and would be good to have a group of players join a peer group for the testing.
Our whole spell/skill system is a very dull system. Most are based off the same idea of the weapon damage and giving modifiers for certain conditions. Which is fine for some, but what system lacks is any additional affects added behind the skills/spells, and getting away from having to use a same skill/spell constantly over and over. Not all skills/spells shouldn't be spammable but I think making the system more dynamic will give the better ability to properly balance classes plus make all classes more enjoyable and not feel very generic.
Give classes the ability to have powerful opening attacks and/or finishers, mixed in with the ability to stun + damage, do negative affects + damage, combine with having a few good spells/skills that are spamable to fill in the gaps of spells that you are currently waiting for to come off of cool down.
A lot of Mmorpgs that have a rotation or combo of skills/spells they use in game while fighting, They use one spell/skill it goes on cool down they move onto another and the process rinse and repeats, until they are forced to go off combo to remove debuffs or heal etc. And while their best skills/spells are on cool down they use lower damage repeatable spells/skills to fill in those gaps. These spells/skills that are on cool down usually have high end damage, or give a player a positive affect or give the player/mob being attacked a debuff.
So if we make the spell/skill system more dynamic I have better feelings that we can make more classes enjoyable, along with balancing them.
Right now people target Gypsy and Priest the most due to mainly these spells/skills that I feel are currently overpowered.
Mana Shield
Thorn Shield
Heal
Midas Touch
Magic Bubble
You take away these and then Gypsy and Priest would basically be just like the rest of the classes. There is really no big difference from one caster class to the next and same for melee. Not saying they need to be taken away, but they need changed, some need the whole idea changed behind them. Ive been working on a something that over the next week I will be posting something that will break down each class into how they should be represented in the mud and what can we do to represent that idea in the mud. And if we moved forward with a better dynamic spell/skll system, we can get away from classes being so generic, get away from pvm being a mindless task of spamming a skill/spell.
Now PvP does closely relate to this, but there are other aspects of PVP that need to be taken into account. Looting/ Damage/ Tier Difference/ Fleeing from fights, just a few off the top of my list I have in word pad.
Mobs should also be taken into account here as well. Mobs are very generic here as well. A mobs hardness shouldn't just mostly be defined by its speed from its tier and its dice. You bring in a better dynamic spell/skill system you can bring in more classes of mobs that can use these spells/skills without the use of having it to be scripted, which then you could get away from mobs having retarded attacks per tick, and make the combat better and less predictable. The mob side of this i believe shouldnt be a primary focus until the rest is done.
We shouldn't just start adding in generic skills/spells to buff up other classes, it should be done correctly, with a lot of initial design then testing. Get away from the generic feeling. Then on top of adding in a dynamic spell/skill system you give the player different ways to build the class.
It would be much more fun to see a priest have multiple ways to block or reduce damage while beaing able to chip away at its opponent, or be able to go another route where they could do a lot of damage with dark magic, but have a lot fewer healing spells or ways to block reduce damage.
Thieves could have powerful openers and finisher spells as an assassin or they could go another route where they rely on their quickness and dexterity in fights.
I would give classes at least two different paths they could take to build their class. If you like the idea, I don't believe implanting a better spell/skill system would be a huge issue as far as coding. It doesn't require the removal of our current combat system. I feel like this alone could greatly improve our combat system, without having to tear it down and start from scratch.
If you want to see what I have for breaking down the classes Roland send me an email and Ill send it to you first, Id like to see your thoughts in it before posting it. I don't think its the easiest route to go, but I think its one of the better routes to go. I think we could do a lot with just spells/skills to change combat that wouldn't require a complete rewrite from the ground up. I could be wrong and it might not be that easy. Any way you look at it, if you want to get rid of the generic feeling then I think this is the best place to start. It may turn out to be more complex then our current combat code could handle, But I think we could work with what we have and prevail.
This system would even be able to favor multi-classing.
To basically sum it up, Make each class its own class, get away from generic skills/spells. Bring in a rotation type skill/spell system. Let classes be able to branch different ways. Focus more on a affect/debuff skills/spells.
It would require real testing, and would be good to have a group of players join a peer group for the testing.